Discussion:
Gracchus, I have posted a review of The Beatles
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Gracchus
2021-02-21 18:46:06 UTC
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Though I have a whopping 73 songs on this compilationm clocking in exactly 3:33:33 hours (see, what a nerd I am?), effectively making it a quintuple LP, count me as "not a fan". I am a fan enough to like 73 of their songs, but not fan enough to worship them. And I could not find a single album that I like from beginning to end. The one which in my humble opinion comes close to being a masterpiece is Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, from which I have included 9 of the 13 songs. I find it hilarious that AllMusic gives everyone of their proper UK studio albums five stars. I am not going to get into album-by-album analysis as that would make the review even longer... and boring... and who the hell am I to rate their albums? But to give you a little bit more idea, this is how I categorize them.
Best - Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, Abbey Road
Among the best anyway.
Bit underrated - Please Please Me
I don't think it's underrated. Beatles were still in the larval stage then. IMO the only standout track is "I Saw Her Standing There."
Bit more underrated - Help
Agree with you there. This is probably because the movie was much worse than "A Hard Day's Night" and people feel like the album must also be weak. But the soundtrack has some really good songs that outshine the turkeys.
Bit overrated - Rubber Soul, Revolver
Definitely disagree. They are rightly rated highly IMO.
Bit more overrated - A Hard Day's Night, The White Album
Agree on "The White Album." There are about 4-5 great songs, a few more decent ones, and the rest is flotsam. I've never understood why that album is so iconic for some fans.

OTOH I strongly disagree on "A Hard Day's Night." I think is an UNDERrated album.
Not real albums at all - Magical Mystery Tour, Yellow Submarine
"Yellow Submarine" is junk, yeah. "Magical Mystery Tour" isn't very listenable as a whole, but among the throwaways are two standouts: "I Am the Walrus" and "All You Need is Love."
Worst - With The Beatles, Beatles For Sale, Let It Be
"Beatles for Sale" is a mishmash. "Let it Be" doesn't even deserve to be called a Beatles album.

Definitely disagree on "With the Beatles." It was a big jump up from "Please Please Me." Yeah, there are some weak covers, but originals mostly good and it has a nice punchy sound.
Could you please explain which songs you like the most, Sire?
If I am forced to pick 10 songs out of the 73 here, I would choose these songs recorded between 1965-69 (their mature period) - You Got To Hide Your Love Away, Ticket To Ride, I'm Down, Norwegian Wood, In My Life, Paperback Writer, A Day In The Life, All You Need Is Love, Get Back and Come Together.
My own top 10 would not contain many of those.
Max's Hoemom
2021-02-21 19:46:26 UTC
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Post by Gracchus
Though I have a whopping 73 songs on this compilationm clocking in exactly 3:33:33 hours (see, what a nerd I am?), effectively making it a quintuple LP, count me as "not a fan". I am a fan enough to like 73 of their songs, but not fan enough to worship them. And I could not find a single album that I like from beginning to end. The one which in my humble opinion comes close to being a masterpiece is Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, from which I have included 9 of the 13 songs. I find it hilarious that AllMusic gives everyone of their proper UK studio albums five stars. I am not going to get into album-by-album analysis as that would make the review even longer... and boring... and who the hell am I to rate their albums? But to give you a little bit more idea, this is how I categorize them.
Best - Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, Abbey Road
Among the best anyway.
Bit underrated - Please Please Me
I don't think it's underrated. Beatles were still in the larval stage then. IMO the only standout track is "I Saw Her Standing There."
Yes that's the best track. But I also like Love Me Do, Please Please Me, Misery and the two covers Anna and Twist And Shout. I have those on the list of 73 songs. I dont pay too much attention to the lyrics... the lyrics of songs like Love Me Do and Please Please Me do sound juvenile, but I don't. What I like about this album as compared to their next 4 is the production... everything sounds so punchy and bouncy and the band is full of energy.
Post by Gracchus
Bit more underrated - Help
Agree with you there. This is probably because the movie was much worse than "A Hard Day's Night" and people feel like the album must also be weak. But the soundtrack has some really good songs that outshine the turkeys.
Why do people watch those movies? I have never watched them. And I don't think it should have any bearing on the albums themselves.
Post by Gracchus
Bit overrated - Rubber Soul, Revolver
Definitely disagree. They are rightly rated highly IMO.
Yeah I am saying bit overrated. I have 5 tracks from Rubber Soul and Revolver each. And I have 6 from Help. But Rubber Soul and Revolver are the better albums because the weaker/unmemorable tracks are way better than the weaker tracks on Help!
Post by Gracchus
Bit more overrated - A Hard Day's Night, The White Album
Agree on "The White Album." There are about 4-5 great songs, a few more decent ones, and the rest is flotsam. I've never understood why that album is so iconic for some fans.
OTOH I strongly disagree on "A Hard Day's Night." I think is an UNDERrated album.
Yeah a lot of Beatles fans seem to think so. I am in minority here. I don't find many of the songs that distinctive or memorable. And they don't sound nearly as energetic as on Please Please Me. I guess they are moving away from the Merseybeat sound. And this feels like a transitional album into more maturely produced and composed stuff of Rubber Soul and later.
Post by Gracchus
Not real albums at all - Magical Mystery Tour, Yellow Submarine
"Yellow Submarine" is junk, yeah. "Magical Mystery Tour" isn't very listenable as a whole, but among the throwaways are two standouts: "I Am the Walrus" and "All You Need is Love."
Worst - With The Beatles, Beatles For Sale, Let It Be
"Beatles for Sale" is a mishmash. "Let it Be" doesn't even deserve to be called a Beatles album.
Yeah I thought of that. Is Let it Be really an album? seems like compiled with some singles and some shit made up on spot. But it is definitely more official than Magical Mystery Tour which was released as double EP and Yellow Submarine which doesn't even have the Beatles on Side 2.
Post by Gracchus
Definitely disagree on "With the Beatles." It was a big jump up from "Please Please Me." Yeah, there are some weak covers, but originals mostly good and it has a nice punchy sound.
I hear a jaded sound there. Same with Beatles For Sale... but Beatles For Sale was trying to get more into country, folk and other sounds, With The Beatles is fairly limited in scope... and doesn't have the energy of the debut... the covers are weak too and dont sound anything as good as Anna or Twist And Shout. May be lyrically they got more nature... but I never paid attention to their lyrics (or lyrics of any other rock act).
Post by Gracchus
Could you please explain which songs you like the most, Sire?
If I am forced to pick 10 songs out of the 73 here, I would choose these songs recorded between 1965-69 (their mature period) - You Got To Hide Your Love Away, Ticket To Ride, I'm Down, Norwegian Wood, In My Life, Paperback Writer, A Day In The Life, All You Need Is Love, Get Back and Come Together.
My own top 10 would not contain many of those.
Hmm.... interesting... what is your top 10? They have so many great songs that it may be difficult for two people to have list which overlap a lot.
Gracchus
2021-02-22 05:16:25 UTC
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Post by Max's Hoemom
Post by Gracchus
If I am forced to pick 10 songs out of the 73 here, I would choose these songs recorded between 1965-69 (their mature period) - You Got To Hide Your Love Away, Ticket To Ride, I'm Down, Norwegian Wood, In My Life, Paperback Writer, A Day In The Life, All You Need Is Love, Get Back and Come Together.
My own top 10 would not contain many of those.
Hmm.... interesting... what is your top 10? They have so many great songs that it may be difficult for two people to have list which overlap a lot.
I didn't see how I could narrow it to 10, so what I did was comb through a list of Beatles songs and mark favorites that stood out to me. There were about thirty, so I asterisked the ones I liked more than others and ended up with 17 (17 seems to be my special number this week). They are as follows, not in order of preference but roughly chronological order:

I Saw Her Standing There
She Loves You
A Hard Day's Night
If I Fell
I'll Be Back
When I Get Home
You're Going to Lose That Girl
If I Needed Someone
For No One
Strawberry Fields Forever
A Day In the Life
Being For the Benefit of Mr. Kite
I Am the Walrus
All You Need Is Love
While My Guitar Gently Weeps
Here Comes the Sun
Something

Only after putting the list together did I analyze it and one thing really struck me. There are 11 Lennon compositions, 4 by Harrison, and only 2 by McCartney! I know there are a bunch of Beatles song by McCartney I like--he writes great melodies after all--but plucking this list of songs from the catalogue makes me realize just how much I lean toward liking Lennon's stuff. And even though Harrison wrote a small minority of Beatles songs, some of his happen to be among my favorites too.

As you can see, some of these were big hits, but a maybe a third of them were never released as singles. Some of their hits I've gotten tired of over time although I still consider them great songs ("Help" for example) but others I've heard a zillion times and they always feel fresh to me.
Max's Hoemom
2021-02-22 14:50:48 UTC
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Post by Gracchus
Post by Max's Hoemom
Post by Gracchus
If I am forced to pick 10 songs out of the 73 here, I would choose these songs recorded between 1965-69 (their mature period) - You Got To Hide Your Love Away, Ticket To Ride, I'm Down, Norwegian Wood, In My Life, Paperback Writer, A Day In The Life, All You Need Is Love, Get Back and Come Together.
My own top 10 would not contain many of those.
Hmm.... interesting... what is your top 10? They have so many great songs that it may be difficult for two people to have list which overlap a lot.
I Saw Her Standing There
She Loves You
A Hard Day's Night
If I Fell
I'll Be Back
When I Get Home
You're Going to Lose That Girl
If I Needed Someone
For No One
Strawberry Fields Forever
A Day In the Life
Being For the Benefit of Mr. Kite
I Am the Walrus
All You Need Is Love
While My Guitar Gently Weeps
Here Comes the Sun
Something
Only after putting the list together did I analyze it and one thing really struck me. There are 11 Lennon compositions, 4 by Harrison, and only 2 by McCartney! I know there are a bunch of Beatles song by McCartney I like--he writes great melodies after all--but plucking this list of songs from the catalogue makes me realize just how much I lean toward liking Lennon's stuff. And even though Harrison wrote a small minority of Beatles songs, some of his happen to be among my favorites too.
I did a count on my collection and it was McCartney 33, Lennon 27, Harrison 5, Starr 3 and some Lennon and McCartney and some covers... but when I decided to choose the top 10, it was mostly Lennon. So I agree. McCartney made a lot of memorable stuff but many of them are lightweight sugary stuff which are not as deep as the stuff Lennon did. Harrison stuff was also more serious than what McCartney mostly did. But then McCartney also made stuff like Yesterday, For No One... so he was not all sugar!
Post by Gracchus
As you can see, some of these were big hits, but a maybe a third of them were never released as singles. Some of their hits I've gotten tired of over time although I still consider them great songs ("Help" for example) but others I've heard a zillion times and they always feel fresh to me.
Yes the Beatles #1 album did not work for me. It has 27 hits of theirs... but as an album it does not work at all... It is a poor introduction to Beatles IMHO. You should go with Red and Blue album which have some of their best songs. Also, Past Masters is pretty good.
Gracchus
2021-02-22 17:22:28 UTC
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Post by Gracchus
Post by Max's Hoemom
Post by Gracchus
If I am forced to pick 10 songs out of the 73 here, I would choose these songs recorded between 1965-69 (their mature period) - You Got To Hide Your Love Away, Ticket To Ride, I'm Down, Norwegian Wood, In My Life, Paperback Writer, A Day In The Life, All You Need Is Love, Get Back and Come Together.
My own top 10 would not contain many of those.
Hmm.... interesting... what is your top 10? They have so many great songs that it may be difficult for two people to have list which overlap a lot.
I Saw Her Standing There
She Loves You
A Hard Day's Night
If I Fell
I'll Be Back
When I Get Home
You're Going to Lose That Girl
If I Needed Someone
For No One
Strawberry Fields Forever
A Day In the Life
Being For the Benefit of Mr. Kite
I Am the Walrus
All You Need Is Love
While My Guitar Gently Weeps
Here Comes the Sun
Something
No "In My Life". I think "For No One" is McCartney's answer to "In My Life" but Lennon's was slightly better.
"In My Life" is a great composition, but it isn't among the first I'd put on a playlist. That is, I admire it lyrically more than musically. I don't see a connection between that song and "For No One" personally. Though sometimes they did seem to do a back-and-forth over similar territory. For example, "You're Going to Lose That Girl" is basically the same story as "She Loves You." And "Strawberry Fields"/"Penny Lane" are two takes on nostalgia. "In My Life" is reflective and philosophical whereas "For No One" imo is one of the best portrayals of heartbreak in a song that I've ever heard. This is very unusual for McCartney. He was very reluctant to bear his soul in songs, which is probably among the reasons I prefer Lennon.
Glad you have "A Day In The Life", it is probably their best song and only progressive rock song. There might be some hope for you becoming a prog fan if you like "A Day In The Life".
Oh, it could happen I guess. :)
A lot of Beatles fans seem to absolutely love Strawberry Fields Forever... I like it but not nearly as they do. These days there seems to be a back lash to "All You Need is Love". I think it is incredibly stupid... it may be hippie... but it is easily their top 5 best songs... it may be my favorite...
It's a brilliant song. Sure the message is simplistic, but it's supposed to be no more than that. People can be idiots retrospectively judging things like that. I read recently that the saxophone has fallen so out-of-favor it's like the uncoolest thing you could put in popular music now. And there's another article suggesting it's time to "cancel" Beethoven because his music sounds like it was written by someone with (*gasp*) testosterone in his system.
You didn't have Norwegian Wood on the list. I think it is their best sitar songs even though it was not written by Harrison. I actually do not like Harrison's sitar songs... I dont think pop and Indian Classical mix well. Lennon's effort is a normal pop song with sitar just added in. Harrison was a not more serious and tried to emulate Indian classical in a pop format, not the other way around like how Lennon did with Norwegian Wood. I like Harrison "The Inner Light" a lot, which is again Indian but sounds more Indan folk than Hindustani classical.
"Norwegian Wood" is one of those songs I'd evaluate highly but kind of wore out on for some reason. So I wouldn't have it on my Beatles playlist. There's kind of a weird thing with that song vs. Dylan's "Fourth Time Around" on "Blonde on Blonde." Right away you can tell there's a connection. Lennon was pissed about it because he thought Dylan's song was a parody. But I also read that when Dylan first played the song for someone, they said, "That sounds like 'Norwegian Wood.'" Dylan answered, "To me, 'Norwegian Wood' sounds like THIS." He said he'd played the song on his guitar for Lennon when visiting him in England a couple of years earlier and thought Lennon lifted his melody. So Dylan was sure he wouldn't get sued over it for that reason. Maybe it's true or maybe not. But Dylan stole melodies all over the place, so he was hardly one to talk.
I see you have included many songs before Rubber Soul... may be if I held you at gunpoint and ask you prune it to 10, then you would get rid off most of them :-)
I doubt it. :) I love the Beatles songs of that period. In fact, I was slightly surprised the list is about evenly split between Beatles 1963-65 and later ones. I just appreciate them on different levels.
Max's Hoemom
2021-02-22 17:42:07 UTC
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Post by Gracchus
Post by Max's Hoemom
Post by Gracchus
If I am forced to pick 10 songs out of the 73 here, I would choose these songs recorded between 1965-69 (their mature period) - You Got To Hide Your Love Away, Ticket To Ride, I'm Down, Norwegian Wood, In My Life, Paperback Writer, A Day In The Life, All You Need Is Love, Get Back and Come Together.
My own top 10 would not contain many of those.
Hmm.... interesting... what is your top 10? They have so many great songs that it may be difficult for two people to have list which overlap a lot.
I Saw Her Standing There
She Loves You
A Hard Day's Night
If I Fell
I'll Be Back
When I Get Home
You're Going to Lose That Girl
If I Needed Someone
For No One
Strawberry Fields Forever
A Day In the Life
Being For the Benefit of Mr. Kite
I Am the Walrus
All You Need Is Love
While My Guitar Gently Weeps
Here Comes the Sun
Something
No "In My Life". I think "For No One" is McCartney's answer to "In My Life" but Lennon's was slightly better.
"In My Life" is a great composition, but it isn't among the first I'd put on a playlist. That is, I admire it lyrically more than musically. I don't see a connection between that song and "For No One" personally. Though sometimes they did seem to do a back-and-forth over similar territory. For example, "You're Going to Lose That Girl" is basically the same story as "She Loves You." And "Strawberry Fields"/"Penny Lane" are two takes on nostalgia. "In My Life" is reflective and philosophical whereas "For No One" imo is one of the best portrayals of heartbreak in a song that I've ever heard. This is very unusual for McCartney. He was very reluctant to bear his soul in songs, which is probably among the reasons I prefer Lennon.
Glad you have "A Day In The Life", it is probably their best song and only progressive rock song. There might be some hope for you becoming a prog fan if you like "A Day In The Life".
Oh, it could happen I guess. :)
Not all of prog is good... I pick and chose prog rock... it is a risky undertaking especially for folks who are more into Beatles and Dylan ;-)

I would suggest you In the Land of Grey and Pink by Caravan. They are part of the Canterbury Scene (which I would argue is not really proper prog) which was influenced by jazz, pop and psychedelia and nothing really to do with classical music at all. You may like them. And there is plenty of saxophone and flute there.... and brilliant bass guitar and organ... there is hardly any lead guitar at all.

A lot of Beatles fans seem to absolutely love Strawberry Fields Forever... I like it but not nearly as they do. These days there seems to be a back lash to "All You Need is Love". I think it is incredibly stupid... it may be hippie... but it is easily their top 5 best songs... it may be my favorite...
It's a brilliant song. Sure the message is simplistic, but it's supposed to be no more than that. People can be idiots retrospectively judging things like that.
What do you think about "Run For Your Life"? A lot of people hate it for misogynistic lyrics... The Stones and Led Zeppelin get a pass for their misogynism but Beatles don't because they were nice guys and so clean cut. I don't like that song because I don't find it particularly good as such, not just for the lyrics.
I read recently that the saxophone has fallen so out-of-favor it's like the uncoolest thing you could put in popular music now.
Well the saxophone has been abused by the likes of Kenny G and soft rock acts in the 80's and 90's... so may be its a reaction to that ;-)
And there's another article suggesting it's time to "cancel" Beethoven because his music sounds like it was written by someone with (*gasp*) testosterone in his system.
That is just stupid. So I guess Mozart is the feminine counterpart to Beethoven... where does that leave Bach? ;-)
You didn't have Norwegian Wood on the list. I think it is their best sitar songs even though it was not written by Harrison. I actually do not like Harrison's sitar songs... I dont think pop and Indian Classical mix well. Lennon's effort is a normal pop song with sitar just added in. Harrison was a not more serious and tried to emulate Indian classical in a pop format, not the other way around like how Lennon did with Norwegian Wood. I like Harrison "The Inner Light" a lot, which is again Indian but sounds more Indan folk than Hindustani classical.
"Norwegian Wood" is one of those songs I'd evaluate highly but kind of wore out on for some reason. So I wouldn't have it on my Beatles playlist. There's kind of a weird thing with that song vs. Dylan's "Fourth Time Around" on "Blonde on Blonde." Right away you can tell there's a connection. Lennon was pissed about it because he thought Dylan's song was a parody. But I also read that when Dylan first played the song for someone, they said, "That sounds like 'Norwegian Wood.'" Dylan answered, "To me, 'Norwegian Wood' sounds like THIS." He said he'd played the song on his guitar for Lennon when visiting him in England a couple of years earlier and thought Lennon lifted his melody. So Dylan was sure he wouldn't get sued over it for that reason. Maybe it's true or maybe not. But Dylan stole melodies all over the place, so he was hardly one to talk.
I see you have included many songs before Rubber Soul... may be if I held you at gunpoint and ask you prune it to 10, then you would get rid off most of them :-)
Thats an interesting story. I didn't see much Dylan in Norwegian wood.... I guess the sitar distracted me... I thought the sitar was the coolest thing in the song... with a regular acoustic guitar, it would sound quite normal. I thought You Got to Hide Your Love Away was way more Dylanesque.

I don't get Dylan's stand on this...Wasn't Blonde on Blonde recorded after Rubber Soul?
I doubt it. :) I love the Beatles songs of that period. In fact, I was slightly surprised the list is about evenly split between Beatles 1963-65 and later ones. I just appreciate them on different levels.
I do like several Beatles songs recorded between 1962-64... but would hesitate to put them in my top 10.
Gracchus
2021-02-22 18:36:55 UTC
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Post by Max's Hoemom
Post by Gracchus
Glad you have "A Day In The Life", it is probably their best song and only progressive rock song. There might be some hope for you becoming a prog fan if you like "A Day In The Life".
Oh, it could happen I guess. :)
Not all of prog is good... I pick and chose prog rock... it is a risky undertaking especially for folks who are more into Beatles and Dylan ;-)
Seriously, I listen to a lot more than that. I'm not tethered to the 1960s-70s nor to one or two genres. I do draw the line at a few things. No interest in rap, metal, or modern country (bad rock with cowboy hats) for instance. I don't listen to stuff that doesn't resonate with me on any level--including the fucking Grateful Dead!
Post by Max's Hoemom
I would suggest you In the Land of Grey and Pink by Caravan. They are part of the Canterbury Scene (which I would argue is not really proper prog) which was influenced by jazz, pop and psychedelia and nothing really to do with classical music at all. You may like them. And there is plenty of saxophone and flute there.... and brilliant bass guitar and organ... there is hardly any lead guitar at all.
http://youtu.be/hbPfPCz3GRA
I will give it a try.
Post by Max's Hoemom
Wat do you think about "Run For Your Life"? A lot of people hate it for misogynistic lyrics... The Stones and Led Zeppelin get a pass for their misogynism but Beatles don't because they were nice guys and so clean cut. I don't like that song because I don't find it particularly good as such, not just for the lyrics.
It's one of the Beatles' weaker songs. In interviews Lennon himself unequivocally said he hated it. As far as misogyny, it's no worse than any number of other stalker/revenge songs...anything from "Every Breath You Take" by the King of Whine or Robert Cray's "Smoking Gun." Women have written these type of songs too, but of course that's cool presumably because men are low-down dogs and deserve it.
Post by Max's Hoemom
Post by Gracchus
I read recently that the saxophone has fallen so out-of-favor it's like the uncoolest thing you could put in popular music now.
Well the saxophone has been abused by the likes of Kenny G and soft rock acts in the 80's and 90's... so may be its a reaction to that ;-)
Kenny G. set the sax back 50 years, it's true. Thing is, people go over the top when there's a backlash on a big trend. One day it's ubiquitous, the next it's anathema. Then after enough time it's retro and cool again.
Post by Max's Hoemom
Post by Gracchus
And there's another article suggesting it's time to "cancel" Beethoven because his music sounds like it was written by someone with (*gasp*) testosterone in his system.
That is just stupid. So I guess Mozart is the feminine counterpart to Beethoven...
Or better yet, Tchaikovsky!
Post by Max's Hoemom
where does that leave Bach? ;-)
With the angels.
Post by Max's Hoemom
Post by Gracchus
"Norwegian Wood" is one of those songs I'd evaluate highly but kind of wore out on for some reason. So I wouldn't have it on my Beatles playlist. There's kind of a weird thing with that song vs. Dylan's "Fourth Time Around" on "Blonde on Blonde." Right away you can tell there's a connection. Lennon was pissed about it because he thought Dylan's song was a parody. But I also read that when Dylan first played the song for someone, they said, "That sounds like 'Norwegian Wood.'" Dylan answered, "To me, 'Norwegian Wood' sounds like THIS." He said he'd played the song on his guitar for Lennon when visiting him in England a couple of years earlier and thought Lennon lifted his melody. So Dylan was sure he wouldn't get sued over it for that reason. Maybe it's true or maybe not. But Dylan stole melodies all over the place, so he was hardly one to talk.
Thats an interesting story. I didn't see much Dylan in Norwegian wood.... I guess the sitar distracted me... I thought the sitar was the coolest thing in the song... with a regular acoustic guitar, it would sound quite normal. I thought You Got to Hide Your Love Away was way more Dylanesque.
I don't get Dylan's stand on this...Wasn't Blonde on Blonde recorded after Rubber Soul?
Yes. I wasn't very clear in how I conveyed it. Sometime in 1965, Dylan visited Lennon's home in England and while there, played him a song he'd written but not yet recorded. "Rubber Soul came out at the end of that year and had "Norwegian Wood" on it. Dylan's "Blond on Blonde" came out in 1966 and had "Fourth Time Around" on it. So it seems Dylan thought Lennon had taken the tune he'd played and then (consciously or unconsciously) reworked it into "Norwegian Wood." But from Lennon's perspective, Dylan just heard "Norwegian Wood" after "Rubber Soul" came out and wrote a parody of it.

I agree that "Norwegian Wood" isn't particularly Dylanesque. But Lennon admittedly emulated Dylan in 1965 with "You've Got to Hide Your Love Away," "I'm a Loser," etc.
Post by Max's Hoemom
Post by Gracchus
I doubt it. :) I love the Beatles songs of that period. In fact, I was slightly surprised the list is about evenly split between Beatles 1963-65 and later ones. I just appreciate them on different levels.
I do like several Beatles songs recorded between 1962-64... but would hesitate to put them in my top 10.
Even hard-core Beatles fans don't agree on this. Anyone who likes them has their own favored period for different reasons.
Max's Hoemom
2021-02-22 20:16:09 UTC
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Post by Gracchus
Seriously, I listen to a lot more than that. I'm not tethered to the 1960s-70s nor to one or two genres. I do draw the line at a few things. No interest in rap, metal, or modern country (bad rock with cowboy hats) for instance.
95% of metal is garbage... but then there is the other 5%.
I appreciate the fingerboard gymnastics of some metal guitarists, but it turns into overkill too quickly and becomes mind-numbing. I don't mind loud, hard-rocking music with distortion as long as it is under control and there are dynamics involved. Just stacking up amps cranking to "11" doesn't take artistry.
I have never been a fan of country.... even the earlier ones... but I like some bluegrass, old-time and cowboy stuff. I think the early stuff from the 20s and 30s was really good... Carter Family etc. Not sure that is country though.
I like a bunch of that stuff too. Bluegrass, western swing, "old-timey," etc.
Do you like The Dillards? Their album "Back Porch Bluegrass" is good stuff.
Even some traditional country is OK. Modern country music has very little in common with that aside from the clothes.
Modern country is no country... it is just pop with some steel guitar and a nasal voice.
I have mixed feelings on Southern rock. I like some Allman Brothers, etc., but the Marshall Tucker Band a lot more because of the western swing influence.
Yeah I am not sure I like Allman Brothers much... it all gets a bit too "one note wanky"... I don't mind a jam if that has some surprises... but most jam bands are fairly predictable... especially The Grateful Dead.
Post by Gracchus
Post by Max's Hoemom
Post by Gracchus
And there's another article suggesting it's time to "cancel" Beethoven because his music sounds like it was written by someone with (*gasp*) testosterone in his system.
That is just stupid. So I guess Mozart is the feminine counterpart to Beethoven...
Or better yet, Tchaikovsky!
Because my daughter dances ballet to his music? haha... I would never assume a Russian to be feminine... pigheaded, yes, feminist no ;-)
I just said that because Tchaikovsky was gay (although married out of necessity). Great composer. If your daughter does ballet you should check out the seven-part Netflix series "On Pointe," which follows young dancers at SAB as they prepare for a production of "The Nutcracker."
Yes my daughter danced to The Nutcracker a couple of years ago... she was one of the kids in the dance. I will check it out. Is this something I can show to her?
Post by Gracchus
Post by Max's Hoemom
I do like several Beatles songs recorded between 1962-64... but would hesitate to put them in my top 10.
Even hard-core Beatles fans don't agree on this. Anyone who likes them has their own favored period for different reasons.
Yep... I had a friend who was a big fan of Beatles... he said the earlier Beatles was nursery rhyme stuff. But then he was also a fan of The Mamas and The Pappas, The Association and The Monkees... so that was a bit contradictory of him.
Their earliest lyrics ala "Love Me Do" were nursery-rhymish. By 1964, some were and some weren't. I just don't see that it matters much. Their aim early on was to write compact three-minute songs that grabbed the listener's ear and kept them listening. Even that early on, they were experimenting musically with novel arrangements, key modulation (first time in "From Me to You"), interchange between parallel major/minor ("I'll Be Back," "Things We Said Today"), and so on. IMO just because those songs were from an earlier stage of their evolution doesn't mean they were inferior. It's the same as with any art.
Yeah I agree. But unfortunately it is the simpler songs from that era which is more popular. So the earlier era is perceived by some as "nursery rhyme era".
And I like"The Mamas & the Papas" too! :)
I like some of their stuff.
Gracchus
2021-02-22 22:01:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Max's Hoemom
I have never been a fan of country.... even the earlier ones... but I like some bluegrass, old-time and cowboy stuff. I think the early stuff from the 20s and 30s was really good... Carter Family etc. Not sure that is country though.
I like a bunch of that stuff too. Bluegrass, western swing, "old-timey," etc.
Do you like The Dillards? Their album "Back Porch Bluegrass" is good stuff.
I haven't listened to them yet. It sounds like something I'd like.
Post by Max's Hoemom
Even some traditional country is OK. Modern country music has very little in common with that aside from the clothes.
Modern country is no country... it is just pop with some steel guitar and a nasal voice.
Exactly. I like a few modern country songs by Alan Jackson for one, but I could count them on one hand.
Post by Max's Hoemom
I have mixed feelings on Southern rock. I like some Allman Brothers, etc., but the Marshall Tucker Band a lot more because of the western swing influence.
Yeah I am not sure I like Allman Brothers much... it all gets a bit too "one note wanky"... I don't mind a jam if that has some surprises... but most jam bands are fairly predictable... especially The Grateful Dead.
My estimation of the Allmans has fallen over the years. Though I never was a fan of those harmonized guitar lines, I did like Dickey Betts' solos on songs like "Jessica," "Blue Sky," and so on. But the more I hear, the more it sounds like pentatonic noodling more than intentionally constructed solos. That's the problem with a lot of those "jam bands" you're talking about. Long aimless solos end up boring me, just like the metal shredders playing a zillion notes a measure. There's no emotional content to it.

Recently I've been experimenting with playing my guitar through various amp simulators. I record and play back some of these to myself and swear I'm soloing no worse (and sometimes better) than some of those guys.
Post by Max's Hoemom
Post by Gracchus
And there's another article suggesting it's time to "cancel" Beethoven because his music sounds like it was written by someone with (*gasp*) testosterone in his system.
Because my daughter dances ballet to his music? haha... I would never assume a Russian to be feminine... pigheaded, yes, feminist no ;-)
I just said that because Tchaikovsky was gay (although married out of necessity). Great composer. If your daughter does ballet you should check out the seven-part Netflix series "On Pointe," which follows young dancers at SAB as they prepare for a production of "The Nutcracker."
Yes my daughter danced to The Nutcracker a couple of years ago... she was one of the kids in the dance. I will check it out. Is this something I can show to her?
Oh definitely. Have a look at the trailer...


Post by Max's Hoemom
And I like"The Mamas & the Papas" too! :)
I like some of their stuff.
John Phillips wasn't the best songwriter, but his vocal arrangements made the songs shine. Too bad there's very little live footage of them other than Monterey.
Max's Hoemom
2021-02-23 04:08:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gracchus
Post by Max's Hoemom
I have never been a fan of country.... even the earlier ones... but I like some bluegrass, old-time and cowboy stuff. I think the early stuff from the 20s and 30s was really good... Carter Family etc. Not sure that is country though.
I like a bunch of that stuff too. Bluegrass, western swing, "old-timey," etc.
Do you like The Dillards? Their album "Back Porch Bluegrass" is good stuff.
I haven't listened to them yet. It sounds like something I'd like.
Post by Max's Hoemom
Even some traditional country is OK. Modern country music has very little in common with that aside from the clothes.
Modern country is no country... it is just pop with some steel guitar and a nasal voice.
Exactly. I like a few modern country songs by Alan Jackson for one, but I could count them on one hand.
Post by Max's Hoemom
I have mixed feelings on Southern rock. I like some Allman Brothers, etc., but the Marshall Tucker Band a lot more because of the western swing influence.
Yeah I am not sure I like Allman Brothers much... it all gets a bit too "one note wanky"... I don't mind a jam if that has some surprises... but most jam bands are fairly predictable... especially The Grateful Dead.
My estimation of the Allmans has fallen over the years. Though I never was a fan of those harmonized guitar lines, I did like Dickey Betts' solos on songs like "Jessica," "Blue Sky," and so on. But the more I hear, the more it sounds like pentatonic noodling more than intentionally constructed solos. That's the problem with a lot of those "jam bands" you're talking about. Long aimless solos end up boring me, just like the metal shredders playing a zillion notes a measure. There's no emotional content to it.
Not all metal is about shredding though. And the good ones have a lot of well-constructed solos. Metal guitaring does have a lot of distortion and that's what really separates hard rock from metal, apart from metal being a bit more on the serious side and dealing with concepts of death, mythology, torture, war etc.
Post by Gracchus
Recently I've been experimenting with playing my guitar through various amp simulators. I record and play back some of these to myself and swear I'm soloing no worse (and sometimes better) than some of those guys.
Post by Max's Hoemom
Post by Gracchus
And there's another article suggesting it's time to "cancel" Beethoven because his music sounds like it was written by someone with (*gasp*) testosterone in his system.
Because my daughter dances ballet to his music? haha... I would never assume a Russian to be feminine... pigheaded, yes, feminist no ;-)
I just said that because Tchaikovsky was gay (although married out of necessity). Great composer. If your daughter does ballet you should check out the seven-part Netflix series "On Pointe," which follows young dancers at SAB as they prepare for a production of "The Nutcracker."
Yes my daughter danced to The Nutcracker a couple of years ago... she was one of the kids in the dance. I will check it out. Is this something I can show to her?
Oh definitely. Have a look at the trailer...
Cool. I will check it out.
Post by Gracchus
http://youtu.be/vOTDb9UqTa0
Post by Max's Hoemom
And I like"The Mamas & the Papas" too! :)
I like some of their stuff.
John Phillips wasn't the best songwriter, but his vocal arrangements made the songs shine. Too bad there's very little live footage of them other than Monterey.
Have you heard of John Fahey? He is my #711
This kind of music is called American Primitivism... cool name... guess who came up with the name? John Fahey, the artist himself! So, what is American Primitivism? Fahey took traditional country-blues fingerpicking-styled guitar and modified it to incorporate aspects of 20th century classical minimalism and Hindustani classical music. This is his most raga-esque effort. It does not sound anything like Hindustani classical though. Nor does it follow the slow burning style of Indian raga. It is simply too busy to be raga and varies more frequently; but it does borrow some of the harmonic concepts of raga. And that's why this album sounds much different than any folk or country-blues solo guitar album you may hear.

REVIEW DATE - Feb 22nd, 2021
SYNOPSIS...
This kind of music is called American Primitivism... cool name... guess who came up with the name? John Fahey, the artist himself! So, what is American Primitivism? Fahey took traditional country-blues fingerpicking-styled guitar and modified it to incorporate aspects of 20th century classical minimalism and Hindustani classical music. This is his most raga-esque effort. It does not sound anything like Hindustani classical though. Nor does it follow the slow burning style of Indian raga. It is simply too busy to be raga and varies more frequently; but it does borrow some of the harmonic concepts of raga. And that's why this album sounds much different than any folk or country-blues solo guitar album you may hear.

John Fahey apparently recorded this to impress his guru Swami Satchidananda's secretary Shanti Norris, whom he was in love with. And we can hear the love pouring into this effort. The production is stellar and the guitar sounds vibrant, especially with the bass strings having such a rich sound. It is still 44 minutes of instrumental guitar with no other instrumental backing. So, it will test your patience a bit, but I recommend multiple listens to get the beauty of this album. Fahey inspired many other American guitarists like Leo Kotke, Robbie Basho, Sandy Bull to follow his ideas, thus creating a new genre all by himself.
Gracchus
2021-02-23 05:14:12 UTC
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Post by Max's Hoemom
Post by Gracchus
My estimation of the Allmans has fallen over the years. Though I never was a fan of those harmonized guitar lines, I did like Dickey Betts' solos on songs like "Jessica," "Blue Sky," and so on. But the more I hear, the more it sounds like pentatonic noodling more than intentionally constructed solos. That's the problem with a lot of those "jam bands" you're talking about. Long aimless solos end up boring me, just like the metal shredders playing a zillion notes a measure. There's no emotional content to it.
Not all metal is about shredding though. And the good ones have a lot of well-constructed solos. Metal guitaring does have a lot of distortion and that's what really separates hard rock from metal, apart from metal being a bit more on the serious side and dealing with concepts of death, mythology, torture, war etc.
Your ratio of 95% of metal sucking sounds accurate to me. I know there are some good ones. I like Jennifer Batten for one.
Post by Max's Hoemom
Have you heard of John Fahey? He is my #711
This kind of music is called American Primitivism... cool name... guess who came up with the name? John Fahey, the artist himself! So, what is American Primitivism? Fahey took traditional country-blues fingerpicking-styled guitar and modified it to incorporate aspects of 20th century classical minimalism and Hindustani classical music. This is his most raga-esque effort. It does not sound anything like Hindustani classical though. Nor does it follow the slow burning style of Indian raga. It is simply too busy to be raga and varies more frequently; but it does borrow some of the harmonic concepts of raga. And that's why this album sounds much different than any folk or country-blues solo guitar album you may hear.
Fahey inspired many other American guitarists like Leo Kotke, Robbie Basho, Sandy Bull to follow his ideas, thus creating a new genre all by himself.
I had albums by Fahey, Kottke, and Basho in the '70s & '80s. Not among my favorites though. I preferred guitarists like Bert Jansch, John Renbourn, Nick Drake, even Davey Graham.

And Richard Thompson even more so. I know I've mentioned him here before. Have you listened to any of his stuff?
Max's Hoemom
2021-02-23 17:48:09 UTC
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Post by Gracchus
Post by Max's Hoemom
Post by Gracchus
My estimation of the Allmans has fallen over the years. Though I never was a fan of those harmonized guitar lines, I did like Dickey Betts' solos on songs like "Jessica," "Blue Sky," and so on. But the more I hear, the more it sounds like pentatonic noodling more than intentionally constructed solos. That's the problem with a lot of those "jam bands" you're talking about. Long aimless solos end up boring me, just like the metal shredders playing a zillion notes a measure. There's no emotional content to it.
Not all metal is about shredding though. And the good ones have a lot of well-constructed solos. Metal guitaring does have a lot of distortion and that's what really separates hard rock from metal, apart from metal being a bit more on the serious side and dealing with concepts of death, mythology, torture, war etc.
Your ratio of 95% of metal sucking sounds accurate to me. I know there are some good ones. I like Jennifer Batten for one.
Post by Max's Hoemom
Have you heard of John Fahey? He is my #711
This kind of music is called American Primitivism... cool name... guess who came up with the name? John Fahey, the artist himself! So, what is American Primitivism? Fahey took traditional country-blues fingerpicking-styled guitar and modified it to incorporate aspects of 20th century classical minimalism and Hindustani classical music. This is his most raga-esque effort. It does not sound anything like Hindustani classical though. Nor does it follow the slow burning style of Indian raga. It is simply too busy to be raga and varies more frequently; but it does borrow some of the harmonic concepts of raga. And that's why this album sounds much different than any folk or country-blues solo guitar album you may hear.
Fahey inspired many other American guitarists like Leo Kotke, Robbie Basho, Sandy Bull to follow his ideas, thus creating a new genre all by himself.
I had albums by Fahey, Kottke, and Basho in the '70s & '80s. Not among my favorites though. I preferred guitarists like Bert Jansch, John Renbourn, Nick Drake, even Davey Graham.
I like Davey Graham... he was huge influence to Jimmy Page on acoustic guitar. I like Bert Jansch and John Renbourn too... Nick Drake is completely different singer/songwriter... I like Pink Moon. Davey Graham/Bert Jansch made vastly different kind of music compared to John Fahey/Leo Kotke... not even the same genre. Those guys were proper folk... Fahey/Kotke were completely different though they played on acoustic guitar.

Do you like Roy Harper? His album Stormcock is fabulous... some of his stuff leans towards Fahey... but they are both people from vastly different backgrounds and it shows in their music.
Post by Gracchus
And Richard Thompson even more so. I know I've mentioned him here before. Have you listened to any of his stuff?
Yes, I have. I like Fairport Convention, Steeleye Span, The Pentangle and even some demented Spyrogyra. I also like Strawbs too but they were a bit different than that lot.
Gracchus
2021-02-23 18:08:51 UTC
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Post by Max's Hoemom
Post by Gracchus
Post by Max's Hoemom
Post by Gracchus
My estimation of the Allmans has fallen over the years. Though I never was a fan of those harmonized guitar lines, I did like Dickey Betts' solos on songs like "Jessica," "Blue Sky," and so on. But the more I hear, the more it sounds like pentatonic noodling more than intentionally constructed solos. That's the problem with a lot of those "jam bands" you're talking about. Long aimless solos end up boring me, just like the metal shredders playing a zillion notes a measure. There's no emotional content to it.
Not all metal is about shredding though. And the good ones have a lot of well-constructed solos. Metal guitaring does have a lot of distortion and that's what really separates hard rock from metal, apart from metal being a bit more on the serious side and dealing with concepts of death, mythology, torture, war etc.
Your ratio of 95% of metal sucking sounds accurate to me. I know there are some good ones. I like Jennifer Batten for one.
Post by Max's Hoemom
Have you heard of John Fahey? He is my #711
This kind of music is called American Primitivism... cool name... guess who came up with the name? John Fahey, the artist himself! So, what is American Primitivism? Fahey took traditional country-blues fingerpicking-styled guitar and modified it to incorporate aspects of 20th century classical minimalism and Hindustani classical music. This is his most raga-esque effort. It does not sound anything like Hindustani classical though. Nor does it follow the slow burning style of Indian raga. It is simply too busy to be raga and varies more frequently; but it does borrow some of the harmonic concepts of raga. And that's why this album sounds much different than any folk or country-blues solo guitar album you may hear.
Fahey inspired many other American guitarists like Leo Kotke, Robbie Basho, Sandy Bull to follow his ideas, thus creating a new genre all by himself.
I had albums by Fahey, Kottke, and Basho in the '70s & '80s. Not among my favorites though. I preferred guitarists like Bert Jansch, John Renbourn, Nick Drake, even Davey Graham.
I like Davey Graham... he was huge influence to Jimmy Page on acoustic guitar. I like Bert Jansch and John Renbourn too... Nick Drake is completely different singer/songwriter... I like Pink Moon. Davey Graham/Bert Jansch made vastly different kind of music compared to John Fahey/Leo Kotke... not even the same genre. Those guys were proper folk... Fahey/Kotke were completely different though they played on acoustic guitar.
Not to split hairs, but Jansch & Renbourn were more eclectic that pure British folk. Jansch started "folk-baroque," and Renbourn got into stuff diverse as 14th-century music by Guillaume de Machaut to Booker T., to Mingus. I agree Fahey & Kottke were a whole different thing though. I was just saying I only had a passing interest in their style vs. the others. True that Nick Drake was also different because he was a singer-songwriter though also a fantastic guitarist.
Post by Max's Hoemom
Do you like Roy Harper? His album Stormcock is fabulous... some of his stuff leans towards Fahey... but they are both people from vastly different backgrounds and it shows in their music.
Not sure. I may have listened to one or two tunes...didn't reel me in, but it doesn't count for a fair hearing.
Post by Max's Hoemom
Post by Gracchus
And Richard Thompson even more so. I know I've mentioned him here before. Have you listened to any of his stuff?
Yes, I have. I like Fairport Convention, Steeleye Span, The Pentangle and even some demented Spyrogyra. I also like Strawbs too but they were a bit different than that lot.
The Fairport version of Richard Thompson is a world away from the Richard & Linda stuff and his solo career which is still a work in progress. I first saw him live in 1991 and was blown away by what he could do in a solo acoustic show. I later saw him with a band and he's fantastic on electric guitar too. Incredible songwriter as well. As for Fairport as a whole, I don't think their sound has aged well.

Another fine group from the British folk scene is the Watersons. Lal & Mike Waterson did an album called "Bright Phoebus" which is like nothing else I've ever heard.
Max's Hoemom
2021-02-23 21:23:44 UTC
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Post by Gracchus
Post by Max's Hoemom
Post by Gracchus
Post by Max's Hoemom
Post by Gracchus
My estimation of the Allmans has fallen over the years. Though I never was a fan of those harmonized guitar lines, I did like Dickey Betts' solos on songs like "Jessica," "Blue Sky," and so on. But the more I hear, the more it sounds like pentatonic noodling more than intentionally constructed solos. That's the problem with a lot of those "jam bands" you're talking about. Long aimless solos end up boring me, just like the metal shredders playing a zillion notes a measure. There's no emotional content to it.
Not all metal is about shredding though. And the good ones have a lot of well-constructed solos. Metal guitaring does have a lot of distortion and that's what really separates hard rock from metal, apart from metal being a bit more on the serious side and dealing with concepts of death, mythology, torture, war etc.
Your ratio of 95% of metal sucking sounds accurate to me. I know there are some good ones. I like Jennifer Batten for one.
Post by Max's Hoemom
Have you heard of John Fahey? He is my #711
This kind of music is called American Primitivism... cool name... guess who came up with the name? John Fahey, the artist himself! So, what is American Primitivism? Fahey took traditional country-blues fingerpicking-styled guitar and modified it to incorporate aspects of 20th century classical minimalism and Hindustani classical music. This is his most raga-esque effort. It does not sound anything like Hindustani classical though. Nor does it follow the slow burning style of Indian raga. It is simply too busy to be raga and varies more frequently; but it does borrow some of the harmonic concepts of raga. And that's why this album sounds much different than any folk or country-blues solo guitar album you may hear.
Fahey inspired many other American guitarists like Leo Kotke, Robbie Basho, Sandy Bull to follow his ideas, thus creating a new genre all by himself.
I had albums by Fahey, Kottke, and Basho in the '70s & '80s. Not among my favorites though. I preferred guitarists like Bert Jansch, John Renbourn, Nick Drake, even Davey Graham.
I like Davey Graham... he was huge influence to Jimmy Page on acoustic guitar. I like Bert Jansch and John Renbourn too... Nick Drake is completely different singer/songwriter... I like Pink Moon. Davey Graham/Bert Jansch made vastly different kind of music compared to John Fahey/Leo Kotke... not even the same genre. Those guys were proper folk... Fahey/Kotke were completely different though they played on acoustic guitar.
Not to split hairs, but Jansch & Renbourn were more eclectic that pure British folk. Jansch started "folk-baroque," and Renbourn got into stuff diverse as 14th-century music by Guillaume de Machaut to Booker T., to Mingus.
Yeah I think I have heard some of John Renbourns mid-late 70s stuff
As far as I remember this album was good - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Maid_in_Bedlam

How much of Irish folk have you heard? Have you heard Planxty? The Dubliners etc? I prefer Irish folk to English folk... English folk tends to be a bit more sophisticated... I tend to like it rootsy... and I am not a big fan of bands who use Electric bass guitar and also acoustic guitar (most of the English folk groups seem to do that). Seems redundant... acoustic guitar has bass strings... and sometime the electric bass can be overpowering the gentle arrangements.
Post by Gracchus
I agree Fahey & Kottke were a whole different thing though. I was just saying I only had a passing interest in their style vs. the others. True that Nick Drake was also different because he was a singer-songwriter though also a fantastic guitarist.
Post by Max's Hoemom
Do you like Roy Harper? His album Stormcock is fabulous... some of his stuff leans towards Fahey... but they are both people from vastly different backgrounds and it shows in their music.
Not sure. I may have listened to one or two tunes...didn't reel me in, but it doesn't count for a fair hearing.
Post by Max's Hoemom
Post by Gracchus
And Richard Thompson even more so. I know I've mentioned him here before. Have you listened to any of his stuff?
Yes, I have. I like Fairport Convention, Steeleye Span, The Pentangle and even some demented Spyrogyra. I also like Strawbs too but they were a bit different than that lot.
The Fairport version of Richard Thompson is a world away from the Richard & Linda stuff and his solo career which is still a work in progress.
I am pretty sure I have at least one of Richard and Linda's albums.
Post by Gracchus
I first saw him live in 1991 and was blown away by what he could do in a solo acoustic show. I later saw him with a band and he's fantastic on electric guitar too. Incredible songwriter as well. As for Fairport as a whole, I don't think their sound has aged well.
Another fine group from the British folk scene is the Watersons. Lal & Mike Waterson did an album called "Bright Phoebus" which is like nothing else I've ever heard.
Have you heard Trader Horne? They made only one album. The lead singer is Judy Dyble (who was initially with Fairport Convention). I like her voice.
Gracchus
2021-02-23 22:17:13 UTC
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Post by Max's Hoemom
Post by Gracchus
Not to split hairs, but Jansch & Renbourn were more eclectic that pure British folk. Jansch started "folk-baroque," and Renbourn got into stuff diverse as 14th-century music by Guillaume de Machaut to Booker T., to Mingus.
Yeah I think I have heard some of John Renbourns mid-late 70s stuff
As far as I remember this album was good - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Maid_in_Bedlam
Yes, that is a good album. Also "The Lady and the Unicorn," "The Black Balloon," "The Enchanted Garden," etc. This was his peak period. I may have told this story before, but in 1987 I was planning a cross-country drive and found out that Renbourn and Stefan Grossman were doing a concert in Austin at U of Texas. I timed my trip to see it and was glad I took the trouble. A lot of those guys are dying off now. I'm sorry I never got to see Jansch live.
Post by Max's Hoemom
How much of Irish folk have you heard? Have you heard Planxty? The Dubliners etc? I prefer Irish folk to English folk... English folk tends to be a bit more sophisticated... I tend to like it rootsy...
I don't know much about those particular groups. I saw the Chieftains live once though and am familiar with De Danann because of Maura O' Connell's association with them. I like her solo recordings. But in general I prefer English folk: in addition to the ones we discussed, people like Ralph McTell and some Scottish guys too like Dick Gaughan and Archie Fisher.
Post by Max's Hoemom
and I am not a big fan of bands who use Electric bass guitar and also acoustic guitar (most of the English folk groups seem to do that). Seems redundant... acoustic guitar has bass strings... and sometime the electric bass can be overpowering the gentle arrangements.
Yeah, that's especially true of fingerstyle guitar because bassline is already included. It's probably one of the reasons I don't like the Fairport sound much. Once I saw Richard Thompson at a small club in Asheville and he had Danny Thompson (formerly of Pentangle) with him. But Danny was playing stand-up acoustic bass so it was non-intrusive.
Post by Max's Hoemom
Post by Gracchus
The Fairport version of Richard Thompson is a world away from the Richard & Linda stuff and his solo career which is still a work in progress.
I am pretty sure I have at least one of Richard and Linda's albums.
The two of them sounded good together and I like them as a duo much more than Pentangle. Recently a remastered box set of their stuff came out ("Hard Luck Stories"). But they broke up nearly 40 years ago and RT has had a long solo career since then. Here's a clip of him solo from 2012.


Post by Max's Hoemom
Post by Gracchus
Another fine group from the British folk scene is the Watersons. Lal & Mike Waterson did an album called "Bright Phoebus" which is like nothing else I've ever heard.
Have you heard Trader Horne? They made only one album. The lead singer is Judy Dyble (who was initially with Fairport Convention). I like her voice.
Not yet. I'll have a look.
Max's Hoemom
2021-02-24 19:46:17 UTC
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Post by Gracchus
Post by Max's Hoemom
Post by Gracchus
Not to split hairs, but Jansch & Renbourn were more eclectic that pure British folk. Jansch started "folk-baroque," and Renbourn got into stuff diverse as 14th-century music by Guillaume de Machaut to Booker T., to Mingus.
Yeah I think I have heard some of John Renbourns mid-late 70s stuff
As far as I remember this album was good - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Maid_in_Bedlam
Yes, that is a good album. Also "The Lady and the Unicorn," "The Black Balloon," "The Enchanted Garden," etc. This was his peak period. I may have told this story before, but in 1987 I was planning a cross-country drive and found out that Renbourn and Stefan Grossman were doing a concert in Austin at U of Texas. I timed my trip to see it and was glad I took the trouble. A lot of those guys are dying off now. I'm sorry I never got to see Jansch live.
Post by Max's Hoemom
How much of Irish folk have you heard? Have you heard Planxty? The Dubliners etc? I prefer Irish folk to English folk... English folk tends to be a bit more sophisticated... I tend to like it rootsy...
I don't know much about those particular groups. I saw the Chieftains live once though and am familiar with De Danann because of Maura O' Connell's association with them. I like her solo recordings. But in general I prefer English folk: in addition to the ones we discussed, people like Ralph McTell and some Scottish guys too like Dick Gaughan and Archie Fisher.
Post by Max's Hoemom
and I am not a big fan of bands who use Electric bass guitar and also acoustic guitar (most of the English folk groups seem to do that). Seems redundant... acoustic guitar has bass strings... and sometime the electric bass can be overpowering the gentle arrangements.
Yeah, that's especially true of fingerstyle guitar because bassline is already included. It's probably one of the reasons I don't like the Fairport sound much. Once I saw Richard Thompson at a small club in Asheville and he had Danny Thompson (formerly of Pentangle) with him. But Danny was playing stand-up acoustic bass so it was non-intrusive.
Post by Max's Hoemom
Post by Gracchus
The Fairport version of Richard Thompson is a world away from the Richard & Linda stuff and his solo career which is still a work in progress.
I am pretty sure I have at least one of Richard and Linda's albums.
The two of them sounded good together and I like them as a duo much more than Pentangle. Recently a remastered box set of their stuff came out ("Hard Luck Stories"). But they broke up nearly 40 years ago and RT has had a long solo career since then. Here's a clip of him solo from 2012.
http://youtu.be/k5V0RkCIaXo
Post by Max's Hoemom
Post by Gracchus
Another fine group from the British folk scene is the Watersons. Lal & Mike Waterson did an album called "Bright Phoebus" which is like nothing else I've ever heard.
Have you heard Trader Horne? They made only one album. The lead singer is Judy Dyble (who was initially with Fairport Convention). I like her voice.
Not yet. I'll have a look.
And if you want to get more exotic check out Norwegian band Folque. Their self-titled debut from 1974 is very good (and sung in Norwegian). They also have a guy who plays the Hardanger Fiddle and I like the sound of the Hardanger fiddle more than regular violin. Check this song out by Folque


Changing topics a bit, what do you think of John McLaughlin? Have you heard Mahavishnu Orchestra or Shakti.

I prefer Shakti (although I like Mahavishnu's debut a lot). Shakti is all acoustic. This track blows my mind (and so does the whole album)... and it is indeed gazillion notes per minute... but I love it.

Gracchus
2021-02-24 21:04:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Max's Hoemom
And if you want to get more exotic check out Norwegian band Folque. Their self-titled debut from 1974 is very good (and sung in Norwegian). They also have a guy who plays the Hardanger Fiddle and I like the sound of the Hardanger fiddle more than regular violin. Check this song out by Folque
http://youtu.be/CvI8f0ezsGM
Nice stuff. It's a modal sound like England's Silly Sisters or Hazel Dickens & Alice Gerrard's mountain music. Also reminds me of the music for a Swedish noirish show I watched called (in translation) "Thicker than Water." I was surprised to hear banjo in Scandinavian music. Still, they make it fit.
Post by Max's Hoemom
Changing topics a bit, what do you think of John McLaughlin? Have you heard Mahavishnu Orchestra or Shakti.
I prefer Shakti (although I like Mahavishnu's debut a lot). Shakti is all acoustic. This track blows my mind (and so does the whole album)... and it is indeed gazillion notes per minute... but I love it. http://youtu.be/38RqK5GRhTI
My only familiarity with him is the album he did with Carlos Santana - "Love, Devotion, Surrender." I prefer Santana's playing to the gazillion notes per minute thing. But to be fair, I haven't listened to McLaughlin at his best either.
Max's Hoemom
2021-02-24 21:35:56 UTC
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Post by Gracchus
Post by Max's Hoemom
And if you want to get more exotic check out Norwegian band Folque. Their self-titled debut from 1974 is very good (and sung in Norwegian). They also have a guy who plays the Hardanger Fiddle and I like the sound of the Hardanger fiddle more than regular violin. Check this song out by Folque
http://youtu.be/CvI8f0ezsGM
Nice stuff. It's a modal sound like England's Silly Sisters or Hazel Dickens & Alice Gerrard's mountain music. Also reminds me of the music for a Swedish noirish show I watched called (in translation) "Thicker than Water." I was surprised to hear banjo in Scandinavian music. Still, they make it fit.
They also have mandolin and many other instruments including dulcimer. The link below gives a breakdown.
https://www.discogs.com/Folque-Folque/release/1517628
Post by Gracchus
Post by Max's Hoemom
Changing topics a bit, what do you think of John McLaughlin? Have you heard Mahavishnu Orchestra or Shakti.
I prefer Shakti (although I like Mahavishnu's debut a lot). Shakti is all acoustic. This track blows my mind (and so does the whole album)... and it is indeed gazillion notes per minute... but I love it. http://youtu.be/38RqK5GRhTI
My only familiarity with him is the album he did with Carlos Santana - "Love, Devotion, Surrender." I prefer Santana's playing to the gazillion notes per minute thing. But to be fair, I haven't listened to McLaughlin at his best either.
Only that first song is gazillion notes per second. The second short track is very slow... and the third one is also slow put picks up. Its a very good album (a live performance, in fact), you should check it out.
Max's Hoemom
2021-02-26 21:37:33 UTC
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Post by Gracchus
Post by Max's Hoemom
And if you want to get more exotic check out Norwegian band Folque. Their self-titled debut from 1974 is very good (and sung in Norwegian). They also have a guy who plays the Hardanger Fiddle and I like the sound of the Hardanger fiddle more than regular violin. Check this song out by Folque
http://youtu.be/CvI8f0ezsGM
Nice stuff. It's a modal sound like England's Silly Sisters or Hazel Dickens & Alice Gerrard's mountain music. Also reminds me of the music for a Swedish noirish show I watched called (in translation) "Thicker than Water." I was surprised to hear banjo in Scandinavian music. Still, they make it fit.
Post by Max's Hoemom
Changing topics a bit, what do you think of John McLaughlin? Have you heard Mahavishnu Orchestra or Shakti.
I prefer Shakti (although I like Mahavishnu's debut a lot). Shakti is all acoustic. This track blows my mind (and so does the whole album)... and it is indeed gazillion notes per minute... but I love it. http://youtu.be/38RqK5GRhTI
My only familiarity with him is the album he did with Carlos Santana - "Love, Devotion, Surrender." I prefer Santana's playing to the gazillion notes per minute thing. But to be fair, I haven't listened to McLaughlin at his best either.
This is their best studio album... the first song features the morsing... which is a kind of Indian jaw harp or Jew's harp.

Gracchus
2021-02-22 05:33:23 UTC
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Post by Max's Hoemom
Post by Gracchus
Agree with you there. This is probably because the movie was much worse than "A Hard Day's Night" and people feel like the album must also be weak. But the soundtrack has some really good songs that outshine the turkeys.
Why do people watch those movies? I have never watched them. And I don't think it should have any bearing on the albums themselves.
Well how can you judge them without having seen them? Here's how I see it. "Yellow Submarine" I saw once a long time ago and didn't think much of it. Worse yet that the songs are so weak. "Help" is a lightweight movie with a stupid Bond spoof storyline. I've watched it maybe 2-3 times just to hear the songs within the movie's context (not that there's much connection to events). But "A Hard Day's Night" is a very different thing. Originally the movie studio just wanted to cash in quickly on what they thought was a fad that would be over in 6 months. But there were enough creative minds involved that almost by accident a good movie got made that not only showcased the Beatles songs but had clever writing, fresh cinematography, a touch of surrealism, and vignettes that profiled the band's four distinct personalities. It also functions as an historical document of 1964 and English culture of the time including the divide between youth and the WWII generation in a transitional time.

Even if you don't want to watch the whole thing, there's a good "making of" documentary that I think you could find on YouTube.
Post by Max's Hoemom
Post by Gracchus
Definitely disagree on "With the Beatles." It was a big jump up from "Please Please Me." Yeah, there are some weak covers, but originals mostly good and it has a nice punchy sound.
I hear a jaded sound there.
To my ears, it's just a darker sound. Lots of minor key songs and different production. I don't love their cover songs on "With the Beatles," but their songwriting had noticeably grown since "Please Please Me."
Max's Hoemom
2021-02-21 19:48:56 UTC
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Post by Gracchus
Though I have a whopping 73 songs on this compilationm clocking in exactly 3:33:33 hours (see, what a nerd I am?), effectively making it a quintuple LP, count me as "not a fan". I am a fan enough to like 73 of their songs, but not fan enough to worship them. And I could not find a single album that I like from beginning to end. The one which in my humble opinion comes close to being a masterpiece is Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, from which I have included 9 of the 13 songs. I find it hilarious that AllMusic gives everyone of their proper UK studio albums five stars. I am not going to get into album-by-album analysis as that would make the review even longer... and boring... and who the hell am I to rate their albums? But to give you a little bit more idea, this is how I categorize them.
Best - Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, Abbey Road
Among the best anyway.
Bit underrated - Please Please Me
I don't think it's underrated. Beatles were still in the larval stage then. IMO the only standout track is "I Saw Her Standing There."
Bit more underrated - Help
Agree with you there. This is probably because the movie was much worse than "A Hard Day's Night" and people feel like the album must also be weak. But the soundtrack has some really good songs that outshine the turkeys.
Bit overrated - Rubber Soul, Revolver
Definitely disagree. They are rightly rated highly IMO.
Bit more overrated - A Hard Day's Night, The White Album
Agree on "The White Album." There are about 4-5 great songs, a few more decent ones, and the rest is flotsam. I've never understood why that album is so iconic for some fans.
OTOH I strongly disagree on "A Hard Day's Night." I think is an UNDERrated album.
Not real albums at all - Magical Mystery Tour, Yellow Submarine
"Yellow Submarine" is junk, yeah. "Magical Mystery Tour" isn't very listenable as a whole, but among the throwaways are two standouts: "I Am the Walrus" and "All You Need is Love."
Worst - With The Beatles, Beatles For Sale, Let It Be
"Beatles for Sale" is a mishmash. "Let it Be" doesn't even deserve to be called a Beatles album.
Definitely disagree on "With the Beatles." It was a big jump up from "Please Please Me." Yeah, there are some weak covers, but originals mostly good and it has a nice punchy sound.
Could you please explain which songs you like the most, Sire?
If I am forced to pick 10 songs out of the 73 here, I would choose these songs recorded between 1965-69 (their mature period) - You Got To Hide Your Love Away, Ticket To Ride, I'm Down, Norwegian Wood, In My Life, Paperback Writer, A Day In The Life, All You Need Is Love, Get Back and Come Together.
My own top 10 would not contain many of those.
PS: What did you think of the rest of the review... band intro, describing their sound etc?
Gracchus
2021-02-22 05:39:39 UTC
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Post by Max's Hoemom
PS: What did you think of the rest of the review... band intro, describing their sound etc?
Very creative?
Max's Hoemom
2021-02-22 14:56:47 UTC
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Post by Gracchus
PS: What did you think of the rest of the review... band intro, describing their sound etc.?
Very creative?
Thanks...that's all I wanted to hear. I have a British friend who is a complete Beatles nut. He also loves ELO perhaps because they sound like the Beatles. He likes Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd too and we saw a Led Zeppelin tribute band together in Houston. He is now in the UK with his American wife. His only comment was "you are on sacred territory, be careful". I am waiting for him to read it... lol.

I am planning to make this into a book. I have asked several of my other friends and relatives to take a look. That's why I keep bugging you with feedback... need feedback from people who know shit... And I hope my writing style has improved... I am trying to inject more humor into them.

I hope people get it when I compared McCartney's songs to gummies, Lennon to chewable medicines, Harrison to candies and Starr to marshmallows. I didn't want to make it apparent... that would have taken the edge off of the review as well.
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