Now I am convinced that this guy is a cheater and a doper

[PeteWasLucky]

And this is a guy that is clean

https://www.tiktok.com/@tennischannel/video/7430956813996248366

[Kalevi Kolttonen]

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And this is a guy that is clean

They are both heavy dopers, that's for sure. Nothing wrong
with it. You have to do it to make it to the top.

br,
KK

[jdeluise]

Post by Kalevi Kolttonen

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encoding 7bit --]

Post by PeteWasLucky
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And this is a guy that is clean

They are both heavy dopers, that's for sure. Nothing wrong
with it. You have to do it to make it to the top.

Nothing wrong with it except it's against the rules..

[Kalevi Kolttonen]

Post by jdeluise
Nothing wrong with it except it's against the rules..

The rules mean nothing. The glory of winning big
tournaments and making tons of money is all that
matters.

I *want* them to use doping. It means better quality
tennis for us spectators.

br,
KK

[*skriptis]

But not all would want to use doping, risk their health.

So in effect you'd get a smaller pool of players pushing themselves beyond normal level, but not all, so in the end, do you even get better quality?

It's debatable.

[Scall5]

Post by *skriptis
But not all would want to use doping, risk their health.
So in effect you'd get a smaller pool of players pushing themselves beyond normal level, but not all, so in the end, do you even get better quality?
It's debatable.

This makes a lot of sense. You see previous dopers and many have serious
health issues later in life. Hell, Lance Armstrong had cancer *while* he
was a cyclist. Personally, I wouldn't take illegal (and unknown)
substances because of the risk, regardless how good I was at a specific
sport.

[*skriptis]

This makes a lot of sense. You see previous dopers and many have serious health issues later in life. Hell, Lance Armstrong had cancer *while* he was a cyclist. Personally, I wouldn't take illegal (and unknown) substances because of the risk, regardless how good I was at a specific sport.-- ---------------Scall5

Agreed.

And I would like to correct myself.

Doping would increase quality, but assuming other players don't quit the game. Which they probably would, so that's my point about quality decreasing.

E.g. if two big 3 members started doping the quality would improve compared to all big 3 guys not doping, but what if third guy quit the game (or doesn't even pursue tennis career) if he knows he can't win without doping?

So overall, we get less quality.

Most probable scenario.

[Kalevi Kolttonen]

Post by Scall5
Personally, I wouldn't take illegal (and unknown)
substances because of the risk, regardless how
good I was at a specific sport.

The doping substances come in many different
forms. Some are potentially dangerous, some
are not.

Amphetamine and its derivatives like in Adderal
are very safe. Yes, if you take too much and
lose sleep for days, you can end up with
psychosis, but so what? It will heal. You don't
stay psychotic for very long.

We need to realize that the "speed" dosages in
tennis circles are carefully controlled and do not
lead to sleeplessness and psychosis.

When running on "speed", you could risk physical
injuries, though, because you are then hyperactive,
full of energy and perhaps overall less sensitive to
react to pain. So you might injure your wrist like
Thiem did or you could slightly damage your muscles
by overworking them. However, you have no risk of
destroying your internal organs or developing cancer.

Your life will not be in danger.

All in all, despite some possible drawbacks, controlled
use of "speed" is very good for tennis players. That's
why at least half of the Top 100 players have faked ADHD
diagnosis so that they can boost their game with Adderal
and similar substances. That is pretty cool!

br,
KK

[PeteWasLucky]

So would you please state for us doping substances that aren't harmful?

[Kalevi Kolttonen]

Post by PeteWasLucky
So would you please state for us doping substances
that aren't harmful?

Do not be childish. Do not believe the scare
propaganda.

Amphetamine and its derivatives are very safe to use.

You can also use anabolic steroids if you do it *wisely*.
In other words, it must be carefully controlled usage
dictated by doctor's orders.

A Finnish weight lifting legend Kaarlo Kangasniemi
is now 83 years old:

https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaarlo_Kangasniemi

He won Olympic Gold in Mexico in 1968. Back in those
days, using doping was allowed. Kaarlo has openly
admitted that he used anabolic steroids to improve
his results. He tested them with his dog first.

Juha Mieto, a famous Finnish skiier asked Kaarlo
for advice on how to use doping. I guess it was in
1975. Kaarlo has told this to the public, but Mieto
pretends he never used doping! Hahahah! :-)

br,
KK

[Kalevi Kolttonen]

Post by Kalevi Kolttonen
You can also use anabolic steroids if you do it *wisely*.
In other words, it must be carefully controlled usage
dictated by doctor's orders.

One more famous example that everyone knows: Mister
Arnold Schwarzenegger. He is now 77 years old. Please do
not claim that Arnie did not use doping when he
won those Mr. Olympia titles. No way he was clean!!!

Hahahahah!

His old friend Franco Columbo used steroids too.

Arnie was smart enough to limit his usage to
sensible amounts so he stayed healthy. Nowadays
bodybuilding is sicker than ever and doping kills
those bodybuilder bastards very effectively.

But I do not care as long as they commit slow suicide
consciously: Some people do not want to live
for long, they want big muscles and do not
care about the horrible consequences. It is a
free world, feel free to do anything you want
with your mind and body.

br,
KK

[Scall5]

Post by Kalevi Kolttonen

Post by Kalevi Kolttonen
You can also use anabolic steroids if you do it *wisely*.
In other words, it must be carefully controlled usage
dictated by doctor's orders.

One more famous example that everyone knows: Mister
Arnold Schwarzenegger. He is now 77 years old. Please do
not claim that Arnie did not use doping when he
won those Mr. Olympia titles. No way he was clean!!!
Hahahahah!
His old friend Franco Columbo used steroids too.
Arnie was smart enough to limit his usage to
sensible amounts so he stayed healthy. Nowadays
bodybuilding is sicker than ever and doping kills
those bodybuilder bastards very effectively.
But I do not care as long as they commit slow suicide
consciously: Some people do not want to live
for long, they want big muscles and do not
care about the horrible consequences. It is a
free world, feel free to do anything you want
with your mind and body.
br,
KK

I agree with your point; "It is a free world, feel free to do anything
you want with your mind and body." As long as one isn't driving a motor
vehicle or somehow affecting others.

[jdeluise]

Post by Scall5

Post by Kalevi Kolttonen

Post by Kalevi Kolttonen
You can also use anabolic steroids if you do it *wisely*.
In other words, it must be carefully controlled usage
dictated by doctor's orders.

One more famous example that everyone knows: Mister
Arnold Schwarzenegger. He is now 77 years old. Please do
not claim that Arnie did not use doping when he
won those Mr. Olympia titles. No way he was clean!!!
Hahahahah!
His old friend Franco Columbo used steroids too.
Arnie was smart enough to limit his usage to
sensible amounts so he stayed healthy. Nowadays
bodybuilding is sicker than ever and doping kills
those bodybuilder bastards very effectively.
But I do not care as long as they commit slow suicide
consciously: Some people do not want to live
for long, they want big muscles and do not
care about the horrible consequences. It is a
free world, feel free to do anything you want
with your mind and body.
br,
KK

I agree with your point; "It is a free world, feel free to do
anything
you want with your mind and body." As long as one isn't driving
a
motor vehicle or somehow affecting others.

It does affect the fans enjoyment of the sport, and the
success/career of competitors who actually follow the rules. I
don't think very many fans care that much about the long-term
health of the athlete.

[Kalevi Kolttonen]

Post by Scall5
I agree with your point; "It is a free world, feel free to do anything
you want with your mind and body." As long as one isn't driving a motor
vehicle or somehow affecting others.

Exactly.

br,
KK

[jdeluise]

Post by Scall5
I agree with your point; "It is a free world, feel free to do
anything
you want with your mind and body." As long as one isn't driving a motor
vehicle or somehow affecting others.

And trans women in women's sports? They're not hurting anyone
either, eh?

[Kalevi Kolttonen]

And trans women in women's sports? They're not
hurting anyone either, eh?

Like I have previously said: I do not give a flying
fuck about women's sports. Yeah, I sometimes watch
semis and finals in tennis Grand Slam events, but
other than that, I never watch WTA1000 or lesser
events.

In almost all cases, women's sports is simply
inferior, class B entertainment compared to men's
sports. So yes, trans women can compete in women's
events, it makes no difference to me at all.

But sports is really strange: Even in events where
gender should not matter, they still have
separate classes, e.g. think of various kind of
shooting and chess.

br,
KK

[jdeluise]

Post by Kalevi Kolttonen

And trans women in women's sports? They're not
hurting anyone either, eh?

Like I have previously said: I do not give a flying
fuck about women's sports. Yeah, I sometimes watch
semis and finals in tennis Grand Slam events, but
other than that, I never watch WTA1000 or lesser
events.
In almost all cases, women's sports is simply
inferior, class B entertainment compared to men's
sports. So yes, trans women can compete in women's
events, it makes no difference to me at all.
But sports is really strange: Even in events where
gender should not matter, they still have
separate classes, e.g. think of various kind of
shooting and chess.

I'm sure you're capable of putting yourself in the shoes of a fan
and looking at it from that perspective.

[Whisper]

Post by Kalevi Kolttonen

Post by jdeluise
Nothing wrong with it except it's against the rules..

The rules mean nothing. The glory of winning big
tournaments and making tons of money is all that
matters.
I *want* them to use doping. It means better quality
tennis for us spectators.
br,
KK

If it means less players pulling out of matches due to injury I'm all
for it to. I went to AO this year and paid big $ for 12 Rod Laver arena
matches, 4 pulled out due to injury. Ridiculous.

[Scall5]

Post by Whisper

Post by Kalevi Kolttonen

Post by jdeluise
Nothing wrong with it except it's against the rules..

The rules mean nothing. The glory of winning big
tournaments and making tons of money is all that
matters.
I *want* them to use doping. It means better quality
tennis for us spectators.
br,
KK

If it means less players pulling out of matches due to injury I'm all
for it to.  I went to AO this year and paid big $ for 12 Rod Laver arena
matches, 4 pulled out due to injury.  Ridiculous.

Perhaps some of those who pulled out because they were doping? When one
puts "juice" into their body, there is a chance that their tendons and
ligaments cannot support the additional muscle mass/strength from these
"supplements"...

[Kalevi Kolttonen]

Post by Scall5
Perhaps some of those who pulled out because they were doping? When one
puts "juice" into their body, there is a chance that their tendons and
ligaments cannot support the additional muscle mass/strength from these
"supplements"...

I tend to agree. It is my gut feeling that doping
increases injuries.

Not just for the reasons given by Scall5, but
because of amphetamine too.

br,
KK

[Whisper]

Post by PeteWasLucky
And this is a guy that is clean

What did you expect him to say lol? Sinner said the money was
'important' but not why he's playing tennis. Carlos didn't get into
tennis for the money, none of the greats did. The best players in the
amateur era went to the pro tour just for the money, eg Pancho, Laver,
Rosewall etc.

There is nothing wrong with the way Sinner answered this question. Why
are all the women playing in Saudi Arabia? Money is a huge motivation
for everyone. Silly question, let's not give it air time.

[*skriptis]

Maybe I'm wrong, but if something was "most lucrative tennis tournament ever" I'd want to win that, and not merely because of money.

But because of bragging rights too.


There's a bit of glory everywhere and these top guys chase glory.

[Whisper]

Post by *skriptis
Maybe I'm wrong, but if something was "most lucrative tennis tournament ever" I'd want to win that, and not merely because of money.
But because of bragging rights too.
There's a bit of glory everywhere and these top guys chase glory.

Absolutely. I remember the 'Grand Slam Cup' 30 years ago paid $2 mil to
the winner - that was huge money back then. Nothing wrong with it.
Good luck to the players who were there at the right time.