Soliciting thoughts on Alcaraz

[Sawfish]

First, I have no doubts that Alcaraz is one of the greatest natural
tennis talents in terms of physicality and shot-making that I have ever
seen. Very possibly THE best. There are entire multi-game stretches in
some matches that I watched that look like a highlight reel--simply one
astounding shot after another.

I did not see the Cinci match, where he lost to Monfils, but I watched
him lose last night to the Dutch player. It was to me inexplicable by
any normal standard. Alcaraz was not driven to making errors; he made
errors repeatedly throughout the match from neutral balls. He made few
winners.

His opponent did not take the match from Alcaraz. Alcaraz gave the match
away.

So in the past we've seen some periods where he plays poorly--he's an
uneven player--but when required to play well to win, he does. Until
recently: last night for sure, and possibly in Cinci. I didn't see it so
I can't characterize it.

It's metal entirely, it looks like. Are there any known perturbations in
his life that might contribute to a lack of desire or concentration?

Last night, in the last major of the year, he played like a man who
really didn't care much about winning.

I'm certainly *not* saying he's in any real trouble so far as having a
career as a remarkably successful pro tennis player. But what now is in
question, like never before in my mind, is if he'll make it into the
ranks of the greats: Borg, Mac, Sampras, Fed, Rafa, Djokovich, and those
who preceded that era--Connors, and the earlier Aussies.

He could be about as successful as Agassi. Quite successful, but not
first rank. I had fully expected him to challenge Djokovich's career
totals, and could see no real reasons, short of injury, that this would
not be possible. But last night I saw a plausible reason why he might
not exceed Sampras' totals. Some kind of mental flaw.

I know he's got the goods and he's got a long way to go in his career,
but what I saw last night, and had been hinted at in some of his earlier
weak matches, whether he won or lost, was sort of inability to get
himself mentally into the match. Last night it further manifested itself
in breaking down his timing to the point of many unforced errors and few
winners.

The other explanation that fits what I saw is a tank. For what reason,
in a USO, I cannot rationally imagine.

Thoughts? Comments?

[Whisper]

Post by Sawfish
First, I have no doubts that Alcaraz is one of the greatest natural
tennis talents in terms of physicality and shot-making that I have ever
seen. Very possibly THE best. There  are entire multi-game stretches in
some matches that I watched that look like a highlight reel--simply one
astounding shot after another.
I did not see the Cinci match, where he lost to Monfils, but I watched
him lose last night to the Dutch player. It was to me inexplicable by
any normal standard. Alcaraz was not driven to making errors; he made
errors repeatedly throughout the match from neutral balls. He made few
winners.
His opponent did not take the match from Alcaraz. Alcaraz gave the match
away.
So in the past we've seen some periods where he plays poorly--he's an
uneven player--but when required to play well to win, he does. Until
recently: last night for sure, and possibly in Cinci. I didn't see it so
I can't characterize it.
It's metal entirely, it looks like. Are there any known perturbations in
his life that might contribute to a lack of desire or concentration?
Last night, in the last major of the year, he played like a man who
really didn't care much about winning.
I'm certainly *not* saying he's in any real trouble so far as having a
career as a remarkably successful pro tennis player. But what now is in
question, like never before in my mind, is if he'll make it into the
ranks of the greats: Borg, Mac, Sampras, Fed, Rafa, Djokovich, and those
who preceded that era--Connors, and the earlier Aussies.
He could be about as successful as Agassi. Quite successful, but not
first rank. I had fully expected him to challenge Djokovich's career
totals, and could see no real reasons, short of injury, that this would
not be possible. But last night I saw a plausible reason why he might
not exceed Sampras' totals. Some kind of mental flaw.
I know he's got the goods and he's got a long way to go in his career,
but what I saw last night, and had been hinted at in some of his earlier
weak matches, whether he won or lost, was sort of inability to get
himself mentally into the match. Last night it further manifested itself
in breaking down his timing to the point of many unforced errors and few
winners.
The other explanation that fits what I saw is a tank. For what reason,
in a USO, I cannot rationally imagine.
Thoughts? Comments?

Yes it's clearly mental. I think it's more simple than what we think.
All players are different and Carlos is still young so will learn what
works and what doesn't over time. To me it looks like he needs lengthy
breaks from the game to periodically produce his best stuff. He's the
type of player who doesn't need a lot of tuning up for slams - look at
FO this yr. So I think it's just simply playing too much tennis at the
elite level. He won FO, Wimbledon and very nearly gold medal in a
condensed period of time. That's a lot of tennis at the ultimate
standard. Nobody else played as many matches over that period. He just
needs a break to recharge.

Going forward I expect we'll see the very best from Carlos at FO and
Wimbledon. He'll drop off slightly at USO but not by much (this is an
Olympic year so just too much). Also there's no reason why he shouldn't
also be at his best at AO to start the tennis year.

I'll have him as fave at every slam for the next 5 years I reckon.

[Sawfish]

Post by Sawfish
First, I have no doubts that Alcaraz is one of the greatest natural
tennis talents in terms of physicality and shot-making that I have
ever seen. Very possibly THE best. There  are entire multi-game
stretches in some matches that I watched that look like a highlight
reel--simply one astounding shot after another.
I did not see the Cinci match, where he lost to Monfils, but I watched
him lose last night to the Dutch player. It was to me inexplicable by
any normal standard. Alcaraz was not driven to making errors; he made
errors repeatedly throughout the match from neutral balls. He made few
winners.
His opponent did not take the match from Alcaraz. Alcaraz gave the
match away.
So in the past we've seen some periods where he plays poorly--he's an
uneven player--but when required to play well to win, he does. Until
recently: last night for sure, and possibly in Cinci. I didn't see it
so I can't characterize it.
It's metal entirely, it looks like. Are there any known perturbations
in his life that might contribute to a lack of desire or concentration?
Last night, in the last major of the year, he played like a man who
really didn't care much about winning.
I'm certainly *not* saying he's in any real trouble so far as having a
career as a remarkably successful pro tennis player. But what now is
in question, like never before in my mind, is if he'll make it into
the ranks of the greats: Borg, Mac, Sampras, Fed, Rafa, Djokovich, and
those who preceded that era--Connors, and the earlier Aussies.
He could be about as successful as Agassi. Quite successful, but not
first rank. I had fully expected him to challenge Djokovich's career
totals, and could see no real reasons, short of injury, that this
would not be possible. But last night I saw a plausible reason why he
might not exceed Sampras' totals. Some kind of mental flaw.
I know he's got the goods and he's got a long way to go in his career,
but what I saw last night, and had been hinted at in some of his
earlier weak matches, whether he won or lost, was sort of inability to
get himself mentally into the match. Last night it further manifested
itself in breaking down his timing to the point of many unforced
errors and few winners.
The other explanation that fits what I saw is a tank. For what reason,
in a USO, I cannot rationally imagine.
Thoughts? Comments?

Yes it's clearly mental.  I think it's more simple than what we think.
All players are different and Carlos is still young so will learn what
works and what doesn't over time.  To me it looks like he needs lengthy
breaks from the game to periodically produce his best stuff.  He's the
type of player who doesn't need a lot of tuning up for slams - look at
FO this yr.  So I think it's just simply playing too much tennis at the
elite level.  He won FO, Wimbledon and very nearly gold medal in a
condensed period of time.  That's a lot of tennis at the ultimate
standard.  Nobody else played as many matches over that period.  He just
needs a break to recharge.
Going forward I expect we'll see the very best from Carlos at FO and
Wimbledon.  He'll drop off slightly at USO but not by much (this is an
Olympic year so just too much).  Also there's no reason why he shouldn't
also be at his best at AO to start the tennis year.
I'll have him as fave at every slam for the next 5 years I reckon.

That's about how I see it. So far the only limitation to his
achievements for the recordbook is the mental one.

...and I do agree that the idea of taking more time off might be just
what he needs.

[PeteWasLucky]

On 31/08/2024 3:11 am, Sawfish wrote:> First, I have no doubts that Alcaraz is one of the greatest natural > tennis talents in terms of physicality and shot-making that I have ever > seen. Very possibly THE best. There are entire multi-game stretches in > some matches that I watched that look like a highlight reel--simply one > astounding shot after another.> > I did not see the Cinci match, where he lost to Monfils, but I watched > him lose last night to the Dutch player. It was to me inexplicable by > any normal standard. Alcaraz was not driven to making errors; he made > errors repeatedly throughout the match from neutral balls. He made few > winners.> > His opponent did not take the match from Alcaraz. Alcaraz gave the match > away.> > So in the past we've seen some periods where he plays poorly--he's an > uneven player--but when required to play well to win, he does. Until > recently: last night for sure, and possibly in Cinci. I didn't see it so > I can't characterize it.> > It's metal entirely, it looks like. Are there any known perturbations in > his life that might contribute to a lack of desire or concentration?> > Last night, in the last major of the year, he played like a man who > really didn't care much about winning.> > I'm certainly *not* saying he's in any real trouble so far as having a > career as a remarkably successful pro tennis player. But what now is in > question, like never before in my mind, is if he'll make it into the > ranks of the greats: Borg, Mac, Sampras, Fed, Rafa, Djokovich, and those > who preceded that era--Connors, and the earlier Aussies.> > He could be about as successful as Agassi. Quite successful, but not > first rank. I had fully expected him to challenge Djokovich's career > totals, and could see no real reasons, short of injury, that this would > not be possible. But last night I saw a plausible reason why he might > not exceed Sampras' totals. Some kind of mental flaw.> > I know he's got the goods and he's got a long way to go in his career, > but what I saw last night, and had been hinted at in some of his earlier > weak matches, whether he won or lost, was sort of inability to get > himself mentally into the match. Last night it further manifested itself > in breaking down his timing to the point of many unforced errors and few > winners.> > The other explanation that fits what I saw is a tank. For what reason, > in a USO, I cannot rationally imagine.> > Thoughts? Comments?> > Yes it's clearly mental. I think it's more simple than what we think. All players are different and Carlos is still young so will learn what works and what doesn't over time. To me it looks like he needs lengthy breaks from the game to periodically produce his best stuff. He's the type of player who doesn't need a lot of tuning up for slams - look at FO this yr. So I think it's just simply playing too much tennis at the elite level. He won FO, Wimbledon and very nearly gold medal in a condensed period of time. That's a lot of tennis at the ultimate standard. Nobody else played as many matches over that period. He just needs a break to recharge.Going forward I expect we'll see the very best from Carlos at FO and Wimbledon. He'll drop off slightly at USO but not by much (this is an Olympic year so just too much). Also there's no reason why he shouldn't also be at his best at AO to start the tennis year.I'll have him as fave at every slam for the next 5 years I reckon.

Not mental, it's the lack of technical and strategic guidance that leads to what appears to be mental problem. He is a like a child that enjoys playing tennis and goes to play his overall game and when it's not working he hits a wall.
I discussed my opinion in the matter in other threads.
Also you can see the pattern in other matches like Medvedev match in the US Open last year.
He believes he is entitled to have the opponent to make mistakes when he plays really fast and when it's not the case he overdoes what he does until explosion.

[Whisper]

Post by PeteWasLucky

On 31/08/2024 3:11 am, Sawfish wrote:> First, I have no doubts that Alcaraz is one of the greatest natural > tennis talents in terms of physicality and shot-making that I have ever > seen. Very possibly THE best. There are entire multi-game stretches in > some matches that I watched that look like a highlight reel--simply one > astounding shot after another.> > I did not see the Cinci match, where he lost to Monfils, but I watched > him lose last night to the Dutch player. It was to me inexplicable by > any normal standard. Alcaraz was not driven to making errors; he made > errors repeatedly throughout the match from neutral balls. He made few > winners.> > His opponent did not take the match from Alcaraz. Alcaraz gave the match > away.> > So in the past we've seen some periods where he plays poorly--he's an > uneven player--but when required to play well to win, he does. Until > recently: last night for sure, and possibly in Cinci. I didn't see it so > I can't characterize it.> > It's metal entirely, it looks like. Are there any known perturbations in > his life that might contribute to a lack of desire or concentration?> > Last night, in the last major of the year, he played like a man who > really didn't care much about winning.> > I'm certainly *not* saying he's in any real trouble so far as having a > career as a remarkably successful pro tennis player. But what now is in > question, like never before in my mind, is if he'll make it into the > ranks of the greats: Borg, Mac, Sampras, Fed, Rafa, Djokovich, and those > who preceded that era--Connors, and the earlier Aussies.> > He could be about as successful as Agassi. Quite successful, but not > first rank. I had fully expected him to challenge Djokovich's career > totals, and could see no real reasons, short of injury, that this would > not be possible. But last night I saw a plausible reason why he might > not exceed Sampras' totals. Some kind of mental flaw.> > I know he's got the goods and he's got a long way to go in his career, > but what I saw last night, and had been hinted at in some of his earlier > weak matches, whether he won or lost, was sort of inability to get > himself mentally into the match. Last night it further manifested itself > in breaking down his timing to the point of many unforced errors and few > winners.> > The other explanation that fits what I saw is a tank. For what reason, > in a USO, I cannot rationally imagine.> > Thoughts? Comments?> > Yes it's clearly mental. I think it's more simple than what we think. All players are different and Carlos is still young so will learn what works and what doesn't over time. To me it looks like he needs lengthy breaks from the game to periodically produce his best stuff. He's the type of player who doesn't need a lot of tuning up for slams - look at FO this yr. So I think it's just simply playing too much tennis at the elite level. He won FO, Wimbledon and very nearly gold medal in a condensed period of time. That's a lot of tennis at the ultimate standard. Nobody else played as many matches over that period. He just needs a break to recharge.Going forward I expect we'll see the very best from Carlos at FO and Wimbledon. He'll drop off slightly at USO but not by much (this is an Olympic year so just too much). Also there's no reason why he shouldn't also be at his best at AO to start the tennis year.I'll have him as fave at every slam for the next 5 years I reckon.

Not mental, it's the lack of technical and strategic guidance that leads to what appears to be mental problem. He is a like a child that enjoys playing tennis and goes to play his overall game and when it's not working he hits a wall.
I discussed my opinion in the matter in other threads.
Also you can see the pattern in other matches like Medvedev match in the US Open last year.
He believes he is entitled to have the opponent to make mistakes when he plays really fast and when it's not the case he overdoes what he does until explosion.

Yeah I think we all have the same broad idea of what's going on with
him. Basically it's immaturity, hasn't worked out yet how to manage his
performance levels. He needs to compartmentalize and focus on nothing
but the match he's playing. I think Carlos is thinking about goat level
issues while he's playing these low level opponents. He won't be able
to maintain his A level day in day out in every match and will learn to
be at his best for slams. This will probably remain his most bizarre
loss