2024 men's Wimbledon final

[Whisper]

Ok who do we want to win and who do we think will win?

I'll go 1st.


Want to win - Djokovic

Think will win - Alcarez


I'm a huge Carlos fan and think his ceiling is higher than any player
I've seen in modern era, but Novak is very near the end and I want to
see 25 slams to stand alone amongst all men and women. I also think
Federer doesn't really deserve the stand alone Wimbledon king title
given Novak is 3-0 in finals and better than Federer in absolute terms.
Novak was unlucky to miss out on 2020 Wimbledon due to Covid etc. It
would be fitting that Federer doesn't hold any tennis records given he
played alongside Novak who was his superior.

So I'm pulling for Novak, but can't lose as Carlos is my man going
forward : )

[Scall5]

Post by Whisper
Ok who do we want to win and who do we think will win?
I'll go 1st.
Want to win - Djokovic
Think will win - Alcarez
I'm a huge Carlos fan and think his ceiling is higher than any player
I've seen in modern era, but Novak is very near the end and I want to
see 25 slams to stand alone amongst all men and women.  I also think
Federer doesn't really deserve the stand alone Wimbledon king title
given Novak is 3-0 in finals and better than Federer in absolute terms.
Novak was unlucky to miss out on 2020 Wimbledon due to Covid etc.  It
would be fitting that Federer doesn't hold any tennis records given he
played alongside Novak who was his superior.
So I'm pulling for Novak, but can't lose as Carlos is my man going
forward : )

I agree with all your points, Whisper.

[*skriptis]

On 7/14/2024 6:26 AM, Whisper wrote:> > > Ok who do we want to win and who do we think will win?> > I'll go 1st.> > > Want to win - Djokovic> > Think will win - Alcarez> > > I'm a huge Carlos fan and think his ceiling is higher than any player > I've seen in modern era, but Novak is very near the end and I want to > see 25 slams to stand alone amongst all men and women. I also think > Federer doesn't really deserve the stand alone Wimbledon king title > given Novak is 3-0 in finals and better than Federer in absolute terms. > Novak was unlucky to miss out on 2020 Wimbledon due to Covid etc. It > would be fitting that Federer doesn't hold any tennis records given he > played alongside Novak who was his superior.> > So I'm pulling for Novak, but can't lose as Carlos is my man going > forward : )I agree with all your points, Whisper.-- ---------------Scall5

I think person with most finals deserves titles record, barring some freak conversion rate.

Federer does have 12, and 8/12 is pretty solid.

Djokovic has "only" 10 so far. Even if you account for one COVID canceled Wimbledon, and give him that final, that's still not 12, it's 11 so I'd say Federer is still bit more deserving. And he might have played in that one as well, making it 13 for himself?



Djokovic never played worse, he's asleep. I'd say he choked this match away, similar to USO 2021.

He is prone to nerves. I'd have to rate Rafa as mentally stronger after all.

Djokovic thinks too much and I feel he came into this match thinking too much, and overthinking it.

Is it the history, or game plan against Alcaraz, but something was wrong imo.

[Whisper]

Post by *skriptis

On 7/14/2024 6:26 AM, Whisper wrote:> > > Ok who do we want to win and who do we think will win?> > I'll go 1st.> > > Want to win - Djokovic> > Think will win - Alcarez> > > I'm a huge Carlos fan and think his ceiling is higher than any player > I've seen in modern era, but Novak is very near the end and I want to > see 25 slams to stand alone amongst all men and women. I also think > Federer doesn't really deserve the stand alone Wimbledon king title > given Novak is 3-0 in finals and better than Federer in absolute terms. > Novak was unlucky to miss out on 2020 Wimbledon due to Covid etc. It > would be fitting that Federer doesn't hold any tennis records given he > played alongside Novak who was his superior.> > So I'm pulling for Novak, but can't lose as Carlos is my man going > forward : )I agree with all your points, Whisper.-- ---------------Scall5

I think person with most finals deserves titles record, barring some freak conversion rate.
Federer does have 12, and 8/12 is pretty solid.
Djokovic has "only" 10 so far. Even if you account for one COVID canceled Wimbledon, and give him that final, that's still not 12, it's 11 so I'd say Federer is still bit more deserving. And he might have played in that one as well, making it 13 for himself?
Djokovic never played worse, he's asleep. I'd say he choked this match away, similar to USO 2021.
He is prone to nerves. I'd have to rate Rafa as mentally stronger after all.
Djokovic thinks too much and I feel he came into this match thinking too much, and overthinking it.
Is it the history, or game plan against Alcaraz, but something was wrong imo.

16 yr age difference - Novak is still top 2 or 3 really.

[*skriptis]

Good 3rd set, but what has happened to Djokovic to have such a cold start, awful.

Scorewise this feels like FO 2020, but in that one Djokovic played ok, even good and Nadal was fabulous. Nadal won 6-0 but each game was competitive.

That was not the case here, Djokovic looked as if he had sleeping pills in first two sets botching 15 easy volleys, etc.

Just lacked energy, so I'd have to say he choked the first two sets, and was outperformed in the third, naturally since Alcaraz had a cushion 2-0 lead to rely on and swing freely.


This one is to regret, not the last year's imo.



I

[Whisper]

Post by *skriptis
Good 3rd set, but what has happened to Djokovic to have such a cold start, awful.
Scorewise this feels like FO 2020, but in that one Djokovic played ok, even good and Nadal was fabulous. Nadal won 6-0 but each game was competitive.
That was not the case here, Djokovic looked as if he had sleeping pills in first two sets botching 15 easy volleys, etc.
Just lacked energy, so I'd have to say he choked the first two sets, and was outperformed in the third, naturally since Alcaraz had a cushion 2-0 lead to rely on and swing freely.
This one is to regret, not the last year's imo.

I'd regret last year more. He could easily have led 2 sets to 0 and
just barely lost 4-6 in 5th. Today he never looked like winning. Would
have been interesting to see how 4th set would have gone, maybe Carlos
tightens up thinking about the 3 mp's he lost at 40-0?

Carlos was very close to losing to Tiafoe here so I wouldn't write Novak
off for USO just yet. I have a feeling he may win his 25th there.

[*skriptis]

I'd regret last year more. He could easily have led 2 sets to 0 and just barely lost 4-6 in 5th.

I hate to counter it for the sake of countering.

Of course he was closer last year, but last year's "regrets" are stuff like "two lousy backhands in 2nd set tie-break" or "missed forehand drive on a break point in 5th set".

That's not a lot.

Can you really regret for playing a 98% perfect match and not 99%?

Generally? Likewise, is there a lot to analyze there?

I don't think so.

Today he never looked like winning. Would have been interesting to see how 4th set would have gone, maybe Carlos tightens up thinking about the 3 mp's he lost at 40-0?Carlos was very close to losing to Tiafoe here so I wouldn't write Novak off for USO just yet. I have a feeling he may win his 25th there.

He wasn't close to winning at all, but he basically gifted away first two sets by not even showing up. That's something to regret imo. He played his worst two sets of the tournament in the final in the first two sets.

It's a huge question for him to ask himself why.

[Whisper]

Post by *skriptis

I'd regret last year more. He could easily have led 2 sets to 0 and just barely lost 4-6 in 5th.

I hate to counter it for the sake of countering.
Of course he was closer last year, but last year's "regrets" are stuff like "two lousy backhands in 2nd set tie-break" or "missed forehand drive on a break point in 5th set".
That's not a lot.
Can you really regret for playing a 98% perfect match and not 99%?
Generally? Likewise, is there a lot to analyze there?
I don't think so.

Today he never looked like winning. Would have been interesting to see how 4th set would have gone, maybe Carlos tightens up thinking about the 3 mp's he lost at 40-0?Carlos was very close to losing to Tiafoe here so I wouldn't write Novak off for USO just yet. I have a feeling he may win his 25th there.

He wasn't close to winning at all, but he basically gifted away first two sets by not even showing up. That's something to regret imo. He played his worst two sets of the tournament in the final in the first two sets.
It's a huge question for him to ask himself why.

It's similar to his loss to Sinner at AO - lost 1st 2 sets easily then
mounted a little fightback before losing in 4. I think age is a big part
of it - Novak wants to warm his way into the match but the young guns
are coming out firing. I think thrashings are easier to accept than
having a lot of chances to win critical points, like Vekic in semis.

[The Iceberg]

Post by *skriptis

I'd regret last year more. He could easily have led 2 sets to 0 and just barely lost 4-6 in 5th.

I hate to counter it for the sake of countering.
Of course he was closer last year, but last year's "regrets" are stuff like "two lousy backhands in 2nd set tie-break" or "missed forehand drive on a break point in 5th set".
That's not a lot.
Can you really regret for playing a 98% perfect match and not 99%?
Generally? Likewise, is there a lot to analyze there?
I don't think so.

last year Djoker was playing at 100%, it just Alcaraz played better in
the final set and Djoker messed up two shots.

Post by *skriptis

Today he never looked like winning. Would have been interesting to see how 4th set would have gone, maybe Carlos tightens up thinking about the 3 mp's he lost at 40-0?Carlos was very close to losing to Tiafoe here so I wouldn't write Novak off for USO just yet. I have a feeling he may win his 25th there.

He wasn't close to winning at all, but he basically gifted away first two sets by not even showing up. That's something to regret imo. He played his worst two sets of the tournament in the final in the first two sets.
It's a huge question for him to ask himself why.

yes it looked like he didn't turn up, but doubt he needs to ask why, it
was prob the pressure of playing Carlos level which he knows is better
than his this year, especially with a strapped knee. Then he prob wasn't
expecting a 14minute game to start. He was then made to run all over the
court, whereas he used to doing that to others. Murray did this to
Djoker, it must've been like that for him.

[Whisper]

Post by The Iceberg

Post by *skriptis
He wasn't close to winning at all, but he basically gifted away first
two sets by not even showing up. That's something to regret imo. He
played his worst two sets of the tournament in the final in the first
two sets.
It's a huge question for him to ask himself why.

yes it looked like he didn't turn up, but doubt he needs to ask why, it
was prob the pressure of playing Carlos level which he knows is better
than his this year, especially with a strapped knee. Then he prob wasn't
expecting a 14minute game to start. He was then made to run all over the
court, whereas he used to doing that to others. Murray did this to
Djoker, it must've been like that for him.

Novak doesn't need excuses, its amazing he made final at 37. More
amazing is the fact he'd still prob beat anyone outside Alcaraz and
Sinner. If you're top 3 in absolute terms you can still win a slam or 2
with a couple breaks.

[TT]

Post by The Iceberg

Post by *skriptis

I'd regret last year more.  He could easily have led 2 sets to 0 and
just barely lost 4-6 in 5th.

I hate to counter it for the sake of countering.
Of course he was closer last year, but last year's "regrets" are stuff
like "two lousy backhands in 2nd set tie-break" or "missed forehand
drive on a break point in 5th set".
That's not a lot.
Can you really regret for playing a 98% perfect match and not 99%?
Generally? Likewise, is there a lot to analyze there?
I don't think so.

last year Djoker was playing at 100%, it just Alcaraz played better in
the final set and Djoker messed up two shots.

Post by *skriptis

Today he never looked like winning. Would have been interesting to
see how 4th set would have gone,  maybe Carlos tightens up thinking
about the 3 mp's he lost at 40-0?Carlos was very close to losing to
Tiafoe here so I wouldn't write Novak off for USO just yet.  I have a
feeling he may win his 25th there.

He wasn't close to winning at all, but he basically gifted away first
two sets by not even showing up. That's something to regret imo. He
played his worst two sets of the tournament in the final in the first
two sets.
It's a huge question for him to ask himself why.

yes it looked like he didn't turn up, but doubt he needs to ask why, it
was prob the pressure of playing Carlos level which he knows is better
than his this year, especially with a strapped knee. Then he prob wasn't
expecting a 14minute game to start. He was then made to run all over the
court, whereas he used to doing that to others. Murray did this to
Djoker, it must've been like that for him.

Djoke said in post match presser that Carlos did EVERYTHING better than
him... that the loss was inevitable.

[PeteWasLucky]

Ok who do we want to win and who do we think will win?I'll go 1st.Want to win - DjokovicThink will win - AlcarezI'm a huge Carlos fan and think his ceiling is higher than any player I've seen in modern era, but Novak is very near the end and I want to see 25 slams to stand alone amongst all men and women. I also think Federer doesn't really deserve the stand alone Wimbledon king title given Novak is 3-0 in finals and better than Federer in absolute terms. Novak was unlucky to miss out on 2020 Wimbledon due to Covid etc. It would be fitting that Federer doesn't hold any tennis records given he played alongside Novak who was his superior.So I'm pulling for Novak, but can't lose as Carlos is my man going forward : )

How is Novak is very close to the end at 37 and he just won us open?

[Whisper]

Post by PeteWasLucky

Ok who do we want to win and who do we think will win?I'll go 1st.Want to win - DjokovicThink will win - AlcarezI'm a huge Carlos fan and think his ceiling is higher than any player I've seen in modern era, but Novak is very near the end and I want to see 25 slams to stand alone amongst all men and women. I also think Federer doesn't really deserve the stand alone Wimbledon king title given Novak is 3-0 in finals and better than Federer in absolute terms. Novak was unlucky to miss out on 2020 Wimbledon due to Covid etc. It would be fitting that Federer doesn't hold any tennis records given he played alongside Novak who was his superior.So I'm pulling for Novak, but can't lose as Carlos is my man going forward : )

How is Novak is very close to the end at 37 and he just won us open?

37 is the age limit for slam winners. Who won slams over 37?

[PeteWasLucky]

Are you saying age matters?

Also, is it sudden death at 37?

[Whisper]

Post by PeteWasLucky
Are you saying age matters?
Also, is it sudden death at 37?

Used to be 26 in Federer era ; )

[TT]

Post by Whisper
Ok who do we want to win and who do we think will win?
I'll go 1st.
Want to win - Djokovic
Think will win - Alcarez
I'm a huge Carlos fan and think his ceiling is higher than any player
I've seen in modern era, but Novak is very near the end and I want to
see 25 slams to stand alone amongst all men and women.  I also think
Federer doesn't really deserve the stand alone Wimbledon king title
given Novak is 3-0 in finals and better than Federer in absolute terms.
Novak was unlucky to miss out on 2020 Wimbledon due to Covid etc.  It
would be fitting that Federer doesn't hold any tennis records given he
played alongside Novak who was his superior.
So I'm pulling for Novak, but can't lose as Carlos is my man going
forward : )

Don't worry about Federer... Alkie can win 8 W titles too....

Anyway's congrats for the new Channel Slam champ. Djokovic was far from
his best but Carlos had lots to do with it. Unstoppable the first two
sets and would have taken 3rd easily too if he wasn't a hopeless choker. :)

Ok, not very bad choke if you can correct it on the TB.

Maybe the "real final" was SF against Meds?

Vamos!

-

Also, as a side note... congrats to Krejcikova too... whose last loss on
grass was at Eastbourne to someone called Leylah Fernandez. I guess
Paolini did a Channel Finalist Slam... quite a surprise her sudden rise
at age of 28. Late bloomer I guess.

[Scall5]

Post by TT

Post by Whisper
Ok who do we want to win and who do we think will win?
I'll go 1st.
Want to win - Djokovic
Think will win - Alcarez
I'm a huge Carlos fan and think his ceiling is higher than any player
I've seen in modern era, but Novak is very near the end and I want to
see 25 slams to stand alone amongst all men and women.  I also think
Federer doesn't really deserve the stand alone Wimbledon king title
given Novak is 3-0 in finals and better than Federer in absolute
terms. Novak was unlucky to miss out on 2020 Wimbledon due to Covid
etc.  It would be fitting that Federer doesn't hold any tennis records
given he played alongside Novak who was his superior.
So I'm pulling for Novak, but can't lose as Carlos is my man going
forward : )

Don't worry about Federer... Alkie can win 8 W titles too....
Anyway's congrats for the new Channel Slam champ. Djokovic was far from
his best but Carlos had lots to do with it. Unstoppable the first two
sets and would have taken 3rd easily too if he wasn't a hopeless choker. :)
Ok, not very bad choke if you can correct it on the TB.
Maybe the "real final" was SF against Meds?
Vamos!
-
Also, as a side note... congrats to Krejcikova too... whose last loss on
grass was at Eastbourne to someone called Leylah Fernandez. I guess
Paolini did a Channel Finalist Slam... quite a surprise her sudden rise
at age of 28. Late bloomer I guess.

Channel Slam, a win for the ages!

[TT]

Post by Scall5

Post by TT

Post by Whisper
Ok who do we want to win and who do we think will win?
I'll go 1st.
Want to win - Djokovic
Think will win - Alcarez
I'm a huge Carlos fan and think his ceiling is higher than any player
I've seen in modern era, but Novak is very near the end and I want to
see 25 slams to stand alone amongst all men and women.  I also think
Federer doesn't really deserve the stand alone Wimbledon king title
given Novak is 3-0 in finals and better than Federer in absolute
terms. Novak was unlucky to miss out on 2020 Wimbledon due to Covid
etc.  It would be fitting that Federer doesn't hold any tennis
records given he played alongside Novak who was his superior.
So I'm pulling for Novak, but can't lose as Carlos is my man going
forward : )

Don't worry about Federer... Alkie can win 8 W titles too....
Anyway's congrats for the new Channel Slam champ. Djokovic was far
from his best but Carlos had lots to do with it. Unstoppable the first
two sets and would have taken 3rd easily too if he wasn't a hopeless
choker. :)
Ok, not very bad choke if you can correct it on the TB.
Maybe the "real final" was SF against Meds?
Vamos!
-
Also, as a side note... congrats to Krejcikova too... whose last loss
on grass was at Eastbourne to someone called Leylah Fernandez. I guess
Paolini did a Channel Finalist Slam... quite a surprise her sudden
rise at age of 28. Late bloomer I guess.

Channel Slam, a win for the ages!

Well, it used to be. Nowadays everybody does it...

[TT]

Post by TT

Post by Scall5

Post by TT

Post by Whisper
Ok who do we want to win and who do we think will win?
I'll go 1st.
Want to win - Djokovic
Think will win - Alcarez
I'm a huge Carlos fan and think his ceiling is higher than any
player I've seen in modern era, but Novak is very near the end and I
want to see 25 slams to stand alone amongst all men and women.  I
also think Federer doesn't really deserve the stand alone Wimbledon
king title given Novak is 3-0 in finals and better than Federer in
absolute terms. Novak was unlucky to miss out on 2020 Wimbledon due
to Covid etc.  It would be fitting that Federer doesn't hold any
tennis records given he played alongside Novak who was his superior.
So I'm pulling for Novak, but can't lose as Carlos is my man going
forward : )

Don't worry about Federer... Alkie can win 8 W titles too....
Anyway's congrats for the new Channel Slam champ. Djokovic was far
from his best but Carlos had lots to do with it. Unstoppable the
first two sets and would have taken 3rd easily too if he wasn't a
hopeless choker. :)
Ok, not very bad choke if you can correct it on the TB.
Maybe the "real final" was SF against Meds?
Vamos!
-
Also, as a side note... congrats to Krejcikova too... whose last loss
on grass was at Eastbourne to someone called Leylah Fernandez. I
guess Paolini did a Channel Finalist Slam... quite a surprise her
sudden rise at age of 28. Late bloomer I guess.

Channel Slam, a win for the ages!

Well, it used to be. Nowadays everybody does it...

Then again the Open Era list is quite impressive...

Laver, Borg, Nadal, Federer, Djokovic... Alcaraz is not in bad company!

[Scall5]

Post by TT

Post by TT

Post by Scall5

Post by TT

Post by Whisper
Ok who do we want to win and who do we think will win?
I'll go 1st.
Want to win - Djokovic
Think will win - Alcarez
I'm a huge Carlos fan and think his ceiling is higher than any
player I've seen in modern era, but Novak is very near the end and
I want to see 25 slams to stand alone amongst all men and women.  I
also think Federer doesn't really deserve the stand alone Wimbledon
king title given Novak is 3-0 in finals and better than Federer in
absolute terms. Novak was unlucky to miss out on 2020 Wimbledon due
to Covid etc.  It would be fitting that Federer doesn't hold any
tennis records given he played alongside Novak who was his superior.
So I'm pulling for Novak, but can't lose as Carlos is my man going
forward : )

Don't worry about Federer... Alkie can win 8 W titles too....
Anyway's congrats for the new Channel Slam champ. Djokovic was far
from his best but Carlos had lots to do with it. Unstoppable the
first two sets and would have taken 3rd easily too if he wasn't a
hopeless choker. :)
Ok, not very bad choke if you can correct it on the TB.
Maybe the "real final" was SF against Meds?
Vamos!
-
Also, as a side note... congrats to Krejcikova too... whose last
loss on grass was at Eastbourne to someone called Leylah Fernandez.
I guess Paolini did a Channel Finalist Slam... quite a surprise her
sudden rise at age of 28. Late bloomer I guess.

Channel Slam, a win for the ages!

Well, it used to be. Nowadays everybody does it...

Then again the Open Era list is quite impressive...
Laver, Borg, Nadal, Federer, Djokovic... Alcaraz is not in bad company!

Indeed!

[Whisper]

Post by TT

Post by TT

Post by Scall5
Channel Slam, a win for the ages!

Well, it used to be. Nowadays everybody does it...

Then again the Open Era list is quite impressive...
Laver, Borg, Nadal, Federer, Djokovic... Alcaraz is not in bad company!

Charlie is the youngest to do it.